Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title! post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. post 1011 HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant? post 1024 Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters
Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock post 2401 Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire post 2506 - 2Jedismom
Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol) post 2519 Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole
; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Aagghhhh!!! Department store elves! They're everywhere!
Here are some Elves
Here are more Elves. These are Elves with spears and swords. They have been learning to use them for several thousand years. They are very good by now.
This Elf does not like the way you are insulting his people....
Hey! I was a social worker right out of college (a long, long time ago...). This was the early 80s. I didn't work with any men refuges, but I did work with a woman whose husband was still in prison in Vietnam. She was here with the children and was (briefly) on AFDC. I can't remember her background exactly, (my brain gets fuzzy). But I think she was in the medical profession. Maybe even a doctor but she couldn't practice here. I forget the details, but I do remember she was a lot smarter and a lot more educated than this humble dwarf.
She seemed embarrassed to be on assistance.
One of the things our speaker mentioned this morning was that his witch doctor "friends" put a "curse" on him that he would never have a son. Well, the "curse" was broken some years ago (after four daughters). But what struck me about that story was not so much that the curse was broken as it was the cultural reference. The way he put it "we don't have social security or welfare, etc. so you depend on your son to take care of you..."
And we Americans think we're the advanced culture...
But see Jen, that's the wonderful part as well. If (more likely when) I screw up tomorrow, well it's already been taken care of. (you're a Calvinist, you should know that!)
You should just tell them that's what they get for living in California instead of Oklahoma...
I (emphatically) don't wish to start a religious discussion here, but that sounds almost like a license to sin?
My apologies if I'm saying the wrong thing.
Oh yeah....the girlie armor guy....he's not even a full elf.
Common?
Yeah....if he were a full elf he'd be wearing real pointy elf shoes.
Notice there are no half-dwarves running around?
Would you know one if you saw one?
Humidity from the river makes his hair frizz.
I understand Jen. I often feel much the same. But don't dwell there (you already know that).
Dwell here:
Lamentations 3:22-23
It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
No Sam, I don't want to get into a religious discussion here in The Hobbit Hole either. There are places for that (and I'd rather face the Mines of Moria than return to the FR "religion" threads)
I'm just offering a bit of friendly encouagement to Jen.
But to answer your question (and I'd be happy to continue in another arena if you'd like), it's not a license to sin. But it's knowing that our sin, all of it, is taken care of. It's knowing the debt is paid in full. We simply believe that those who know Christ do not want to sin (thus Jen wanting to hide away). But we also know that on this side of eternity, we're not perfect. We're still human, still fallible.
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