Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
-----------------------------------------
Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Do you happen to know where in the letters this appears?
I have found something close in Letter 177 (to Rayner Unwin dated 8 Dec. 1955.) "Edwin Muir, reviewing The Return of the King in the Observer on 27 November, wrote:'All the characters are boys masquerading as adult heroes....and will never come to puberty.....Hardly one of them knows anything about women.'"
To which Tolkien replied:
Blast Edwin Muir and his delayed adolescence. He is old enough to know better. It might do him good to hear what women think of his 'knowing about women', especially as a test of being mentally adult. If he had an M.A. I should nominate him for the professorship of poetry-a sweet revenge.[A footnote about the poetry professorship [at Oxford] states that it was vacant at the time and nominations were being made for his successor. W.H. Auden was elected. He's the guy who said "If someone dislikes it [LOTR], I shall never trust their literary judgement about anything again."]
I'm not sure why that would be a sweet revenge (but then, sometimes I'm a slowcoach!)
I write stories for fun. Let me tell you, I have very little control over the characters. Once I create them, and start them off, I really am just along for the ride, chronicling the adventures. Occasionally a minor character will take over the story, or someone who should be the main character turns out to be totally unimportant. Maybe real writers don't work like that, but I find it fun! Almost as much fun as reading, and sometimes more.
Men don't know anything about women either until they've been married for a while...or so I've heard. ;) And isn't that the best way to learn?
Of course, I have no right at all to speak on the subject, but that's never stopped me before. :o
WOW! Lots and lots of goodies....
Hence ... cometh the muse .
I remember John Denver saying about "Rocky Mountain High" and "Calypso" that they came, all of a piece, in about 20 minutes. He had no idea where it came from ... he just received it and wrote it down. Of course, he was on a ski lift in the Rockies for the first one and actually on Jacque Coustos (Sp?) ship at sea for the second. There were others as well. Example only.
I may be over re-acting to the change. Maybe not.
Either way, I don't know what you're trying to say! It's in another language! ;-)
At first, there was this huge build up of excitement about the movie amongst many on FR and for some reason, the NZ Builds a Hobbit Hole thread seemed to be the gathering place. I think it was because it was a short article and there were few large graphics and it just was easy to post to it. A few people posted some pretty insightful thoughts and it got others who happened by to thinking and they started posting what they thought and the next thing you know, the huge build-up was released! People were talking and commenting like crazy! Then ultimately, everyone "felt better" and started not commenting as often. And being responsible Freepers, they moved the chat-like comments to a more informal setting, the FR Hobbit Hole egroup.
I am of the opinion that after this Friday, things may well pick up for a while again. The Two Towers preview is going to be quite a thrill.
DOH! Call me Nob the Slowcoah! I've been doing some guessing in my slow pate. If Tolkien had nominated that bozo, W.H. Auden would have kicked his butt in the election.
It is impossible to maintain the same intensity that we had when everyone was seeing the film for the first time, second time, third time, fourth time, and retelling the emotion of seeing this film. Many are still going to see it, but the conversations have all been had on the subject of the first film! (some of the better conversations have been had 3-4 times!) And what a great ride it was! Now we wait for the next important new thing to re-light our fires.
If things are quiet now, it is because we are between events. Personally, I will need that break in intensity. I can't do it for three years at that pace without a breather.
Gandalf and Thorongil were battling the Corsairs fleet 40 years before the War of the Ring (2979).
Did anyone else notice how different Frodo was in this final scene as compared to the entire rest of the movie? He was very calm, almost disconnected from all of the turmoil that he had been caught up in from the time that he took possession of the ring. It is quite startling, especially when compared with the previous scenes where he makes his decision and where Sam joins him, which contain some of the most intense emotional turmoil he's experienced thus far. And yet here in this scene, his words reflect that he knows he is going forward to his death, yet it is here that he is the calmest.
I thought that was interesting, and I wonder what all went into deciding to do this this way, and since it's been awhile since I read that part of the book, does the book follow a similar emotional arc? Or is it different?
As for your earlier comments about rings of power and their danger, except for the one ring, it seemed to me that magic rings were not nearly as dangerous to the bearer as that ring turns out to be. And it's likely Gandalf thought that a magic ring in the possession of a hobbit, who would not likely use it for anything beyond just disappearing, would not be a problem. There also seems to be something about the fact that no one who is not being extraordinarily tempted by the ring ever thinks it would be okay to just take the ring away from either Bilbo or Frodo. Perhaps Gandalf didn't feel it was appropriate for him to take the ring away in the first place, and he did not truly realize the danger. By the time he spoke to Frodo of the perilous nature of rings of power, he understood more fully what they were dealing with, but perhaps what was "perilous" to humans and/or elves he didn't think would be a problem to a hobbit...
Okay, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's the best I can come up with. ;) I do think that Gandalf had no idea of the corrupting power of the ring that Bilbo possessed until Bilbo's birthday and he saw all the Gollum-like symptoms. In the movie, I thought they (and particularly Ian Holm) did a wonderful of job of pointing to that, because Bilbo literally turned into another person during that scene. It was truly a Jekyll-Hyde moment. Until then, I honestly don't think Gandalf thought there was any lasting effect or danger to Bilbo in possessing the ring. Then the ring passed to Frodo, and Gandalf spent the next several years trying to find Gollum to find out where the ring came from in the first place.
All rings of power might be "perilous" but Bilbo was no pushover--he had a lot of strength of character and knowledge and goodness in his own right. Maybe Gandalf figured he was up to the task...and he would have been, if it had been an ordinary, garden-variety ring of power.
Which brought me back to the question of what Gandalf was doing all those years. The real world intruded and I had to get back to work before I got much farther than finding the date of the Corsair thing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.