Here is a part of dialogue from the movie that really hit me. In it, the murderer is asking the Psychiatrist about his girlfriend:
NEFARIOUS: Say, James, what's Melanie up to today? As a matter of fact, what's she up to right now? She doesn't have a clue you're about to break up with her, does she? Of course you're not gonna until you have somebody else lined up though, right? Because you're that kind of guy. But you already have your sights on somebody, don't you? Yeah. I can smell it all the way from here. She thinks she's doing this to maintain the relationship. She'd like to have a child with you, James. (STUTTERING) Oh, but you're just not, not quite ready yet, are you? After all, you're only 35. Imagine the joy in your little Cinderella's heart when she realizes she's butchered the baby in her belly for nothing.
Look, I don't know what you think you know, but any decision that was made between me and my girlfriend was her choice.
NEFARIOUS: Well, I think we both know better, James.
Stop it.
NEFARIOUS: Don't you think you should be there-when it's being done?
DR. MARTIN: I said, stop it.
NEFARIOUS: Hold her hand, maybe? I'll tell you what you could do, James. You could walk right there to the guard station, pick up that cell phone and make a phone call that stops everything in its tracks. You could apologize to her. Tell her you made a horrible mistake, that you love her, you wanna spend the rest of your life with her, you wanna marry her, and you wanna hold that child. James, you could tell her that. You could make your life about sacrificial love. And you could play live-in therapist for the rest of your life.
DR. MARTIN: I can't do that.
NEFARIOUS: No, James, why not?
DR. MARTIN: It's... It's complicated.
NEFARIOUS: (NEFARIOUS CHUCKLING, SLAPS TABLE) That's my boy, James! That's him right there.
DR. MARTIN: You don't understand.
NEFARIOUS: Oh, I think I do, James. I think I understand. It's another problem easily solved though, isn't it?
DR. MARTIN: That's not it. Like, I care about it, but I'm...
NEFARIOUS: What?
DR. MARTIN: I'm not ready to be a father.
NEFARIOUS: (SOFTLY) Oh. (HESITATES) It's her body. She can do what she wants. "Do what thou wilt-that shall be the whole of the Law."
DR. MARTIN: You arrogant son of a-Who...Who are you to judge me? This is my life. I...I can live it the way I want.
NEFARIOUS: (BANGS ON TABLE) Yes, James! I couldn't have said it better myself. But it's still murder.
DR. MARTIN: Says who?
NEFARIOUS: Says all of creation, James. The creator creates, and we destroy, and we do all of it through you. We always have. Did you forget your history, Jimmy? Even in ancient times, the arch-demon Moloch was celebrated by tossing infants into flaming bonfires, accompanied, of course, by the beating of drums to drown out the screaming. Later on, they erected a giant bronze statue with outstretched arms kindling fires beneath the palms, and when they toss a little infant into those open palms, they'd flinch at the red-hot metal, but then they'd willingly roll themselves off into the flames.
DR. MARTIN: What does any of that have to do with me?
NEFARIOUS: Oh, nothing, James! Especially since the priests now wear surgical scrubs. The killing takes place in the womb. So there's no screaming to be heard anyway, and the remains are tossed into gas-fired crematoriums. No, James, no. No, no, no. There's no parallel. whatsoever to you. Can you imagine the agony the carpenter feels when we rip a child to pieces inside its own mother's womb? Because that's what we do, James, you and us. We do that together.
DR. MARTIN: You're sick.
NEFARIOUS: (SOFTLY) Yeah. That might be the nicest thing you've ever said to me, James.
Film ping
This would be interesting.
Did you ever watch “Fallen” with Denzel Washington?
This "everyone is inherently good" doctrine sounds so gentle and nice, but is hellish in the real world. Here's why: If you say everyone is inherently good, you nonetheless have to admit (if you have any functioning brain cells) that everyone is doing bad things. But if people are inherently good, that means they have to blame something outside of themselves for the evil they commit.
So instead of accepting responsibility as sinners, they pick scapegoats. Everyone has them, but in the minds of "inherent good" people these scapegoats become The Source of All Evil, to be blamed for everything that goes wrong in society. And so this creates a powerful moral imperative: Get rid of the scapegoat, by fair means or foul, and you can create a Utopia on earth.
And so these folks, when they take control of a society, inevitably engage in genocide against the people/institutions they scapegoat. After all, if you just kill all the capitalists, the dirty jews, the n*ggers, the white crackers, the Church, whatever the case may be, then you've eliminated the root of evil. So the ends always justify the means, no matter how horrible. Utopia is just around the corner once the genocide is complete, or so they believe. Because they won't admit their own sinful nature.
I have seen the movie. I have watched the video clips..
Yes,’I know what evil lurks in the hearts of men.”
It had taken a lot of ‘work’. So much so I hope never to come to a “triggering moments” ever again. I’m too old,. I get upset, and my gut goes nuts. (Must be my own fashioned limiter,eh?)
I’ve seen evil. I see it more today than in the ‘80’s, and that is a lot. Societal engineering can never heal the human condition. Socialism and communism both tried, but bred more monsters, for the good of the state.
Yes, this movie felt so real. Fr. Dan Rehill, an exorcist, says it’s the closest thing to real life. He said he couldn’t believe they let the movie be made.
It is scary and creepy. Not in a guy jumping out from being a bush scary, but what the devil has going on in day to day life. Scary in how it messes with your mind.
This is actually a religious movie. But not in the cliche Jesus comes to save the day way. This is more of a go to confession and own up to your mistakes way.
I endorse seeing this movie.
Haven’t seen the movie, but your comments bring to mind some resources that may be of interest, as they seem to relate to things you’re saying:
A Conflict of Visions
by Thomas Sowell
https://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Visions-Ideological-Political-Struggles-ebook/dp/B003E749SK
Amazon description of this book:
Controversies in politics arise from many sources, but the conflicts that endure for generations or centuries show a remarkably consistent pattern.
In this classic work, Thomas Sowell analyzes this pattern.
He describes the two competing visions that shape our debates about the nature of reason, justice, equality, and power:
the “constrained” vision, which sees human nature as unchanging and selfish,
and the “unconstrained” vision, in which human nature is malleable and perfectible.
A Conflict of Visions offers a convincing case that ethical and policy disputes circle around the disparity between both outlooks.
____________
The Screwtape Letters
by C.S. Lewis
https://www.amazon.com/Screwtape-Letters-C-S-Lewis-ebook/dp/B002BD2V2Y
(A senior demon tutors a junior demon on clever techniques for leading Christians astray.)
____________
The Angelic Rebellion
Free series of classes taught by an unusually good pastor-teacher, Dr. Robert Dean. Has a lot of fascinating info from a Biblical perspective.
Each class is available free in multiple formats: video, audio, printed transcript, and accompanying slideshow.
https://deanbibleministries.org/doctrines-topics-menuitem/angelic-rebellion
“”Just discourse on the nature of God and this world he created.””
***
I saw it when it first came out and I’d have to rewatch it for the dialogue, since forgotten, but I thought that the explanation the demon gave for the “why” between God and the fallen angels/demons was very believable.
I have recommended the movie to people I know but they are put off by the “horror” aspect of the movie, unfortunately. But yeah, it gives a real clear explanation of the interaction between man vs. Satan vs. God. I couldn’t help thinking at the time that someone involved in the making of that movie was somehow “plugged in” to the reality of it all, for the dialogue to be that pointedly plausible.... perhaps even someone involved with the Vatican and exorcisms.
Seen it... Well worth a watch... Excellent dialogue...
That was a really good movie
Two thumbs up...an Oscar worthy performance IMO.
My fianceé introduced me to it the other night, and for a movie with a $1 million budget, it was fantastic. In the end, I felt bad for Edward. He seemed like he wanted to repent, but couldn’t due to his... Companion.
I’m not even a believer and I thought it was an amazingly horrifying film. I was raised a Cathloic and remember enough to understand the gravity of what had happened to Edward, and found myself frustrated with James (and that terrible excuse for a priest). Despite my lack of belief, I’m more than open to the fact that I could be wrong. Humans aren’t perfect, and part of that is acknowledging we can potentially be wrong. James was too proud to consider it. I suppose that was part of why Nefariamus wanted him though, right?
The whole thing did ultimately cause him to make some changes, though, temporary as they may have been.
Lindsey Clancy case—do people have any clue how long it takes to STRANGLE someone? It is not a quick process.
And Lindswy Clancy, demon parent, made the decision to strangle three children, THREE times.
Plenty of intent there. THREE TIMES she decided to strangle a child.
GUILTY. Not crazy. EVIL.
This is not really a horror movie. It’s not a movie done for entertainment, but for education. It’s a Christian movie that lays out the reality and nature of evil in this dying world using current themes. There’s symbolism throughout that points to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and Satan’s attempt to mimic God with counterfeits. I’m waiting for the sequel.
I thought it was excellent and some great acting for a change.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” - Ephesians 6:12We ourselves will be the downfall of the American dream. It won’t be climate change, Communism, economic inequality, wars, or even AI. It will be because most of the country does not understand exactly what it is that made us “GREAT” in the first place……. Trust in the God of the Bible and belief in what Jesus Christ taught. Your post and comments clearly demonstrate and remind us of this. I also enjoyed reading your FR profile. Allow me to add a suggested book to those already mentioned here.
“The Altar of Pergamon” by Johnathon Cahn
It tells of the unseen forces at work and moving behind the events of the modern world. Cahn writes this thru a fiction story, but the historical facts and Biblical references are all true and accurate. It tells about the very real altar that was erected 2000 years ago in Turkey for who we know as “the devil”, and how was moved to Berlin in the 19th century by German archaeologists, who evidently had an easy time getting permission for its removal from the indifferent authorities of the Ottoman empire. It now sits in Berlin because Hitler believed it would bring him supernatural powers. The spiritual evil came along with it resulting in two world wars and the terror Hitler and then the spread of Communism. Remember the backdrop of Obama’s acceptance speech? It resembled a Greek Temple? But it actually was somewhat a recreation of the Alter of Pergamon.
I thought the movie was the best that year.
The ending left me feeling great.
We saw that movie when it came out. We liked it — there was a lot to think about. It seems that it was longer ago than 2023, but I guess not.
It was more cerebral than The Exorcist, which scared the crap out of me. Over the years I’ve had friends who were/are missionaries in foreign places, and have heard of their experiences with people being possessed, and how they dealt with it.
Thanks.
Nefarious is worth a watch. It is a rarity: a truly philosophical movie, the bulk of which consists of two men sitting across a table and talking theology.
Some people label it a psychological horror film, which is accurate enough. Some label it a Christian movie, which is fair enough.
But taking a step back, it is expositional to a degree rarely seen in movies. The central dialogue is a debate, with the antagonists very clearly articulating a position.
The reviews — both from critics and viewers — are revealing. The secularists HATE this movie. They review bombed it. (This is one of those movies where you should simply laugh at the ratings.)
It is clear that most of the critical viewers — if they actually watched it at all, which many clearly didn’t — have no comprehension of it ... primarily because they wish to live in a denial of the reality of evil. That doesn’t mean it’s a great movie — I’m not sure how I would rate it cinematically, and it seems beside the point to try — but it is a first rate exposition.
It is a movie that was designed to be discussed. But the secularists will refuse to do that, because it exposes them.
I don’t recall if I posted to the movie ping list when Nefarious came out; I do recall that I saw it while on the road and was out of pocket for a week, so I may have let it go by. Some of the regulars have already weighed in, but it’s easy to miss a thread. I’ll loop the list in here for those who may have missed this one.
Two men sitting across a table talking theology ... and the comparison that springs to mind is Conspiracy (2001), which is a whole roomful of men, most in uniform, sitting around a conference table and talking. Evil IS a commanding presence.
I watched it.
Best film regarding the evil of secular humanism and atheism that leads to possession I’ve ever seen , in its accuracy of the subject.
It’s a warning film I wish every unbeliever in God would watch.
It’s content reminds me of many things wrote by C.S. Lewis.
I wish every Christian church would show it to their congregations, including the kids.
.maybe then some will never open doors to ideas actions and consequences that can not be closed without severe effort if ever. Impossible to close without the power of the Holy Spirit and the authority of the name of Jesus Christ.
The most valuable movie I’ve ever seen other than The Gospel of John .