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Posted on 12/30/2025 5:47:17 AM PST by dennisw
A pair of Empire State snowbirds just learned it’s not easy to fly the coop.
An upstate couple who relocated to Florida is still on the hook for a $60,000 New York tax bill because they didn’t prove their Sunshine State pad was their main residence, a state tax panel ruled in a recent bombshell decision.
John Hoff and his wife, Kathleen Ocorr-Hoff, kept cashing paychecks here and didn’t give up their local country club memberships, the tax panel found in the decision — which could give pause to snowbirds splitting time between the Empire State and Florida.
The couple decided to retire to the warmer climes of Naples, Florida, and plunked down money for a ritzy $1 million, three-bedroom, three-bath condo in the Sunshine State — but kept too many ties to Canandaigua, the Oct. 9 decision determined.
John Jay Hoff holding a glass of red wine, and Kathleen Ocorr Hoff posing together.
Hoff and Ocorr-Hoff contended the proof of their move was they had registered vehicles in Florida and had bank accounts there, the 24-page ruling by the State of New York Tax Appeals Tribunal said.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
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I bet they are voting D like champs. Democrats love snowbird voter identity theft.It is the first step before cemetery voting.
They effectively are tracking down people when the "investigate" hours/days/time spent. I think it was one of the Yankees players that got into a dispute where they had him document specific hours to see what their take would be. So I really meant track down their days spent in FL vs. NY.
.P<>.Welcome to the Hotel New York City..............You can NEVER LEAVE!...........
Oh, you can leave.
But if you’re smart, you take EVERYTHING with you when you go.
“So I really meant track down their days spent in FL vs. NY.”
They just send the bill. It is up to the person to provide the evidence.
I’m in pretty good shape. I have spent the following number of days in New York:
1999 and prior: 365 days.
2000: ZERO days.
2001: ZERO days.
2002: ZERO days.
2003: ZERO days.
2004: ZERO days.
2005: ZERO days.
2006: ZERO days.
2007: ZERO days.
2008: ZERO days.
2009: ZERO days.
2010: ZERO days.
2011: ZERO days.
2012: ZERO days.
2013: ZERO days.
2014: ZERO days.
2015: ZERO days.
2016: ZERO days.
2017: ZERO days.
2018: ZERO days.
2019: ZERO days.
2020: ZERO days.
2021: ZERO days.
2022: ZERO days.
2023: ZERO days.
2024: ZERO days.
2025: ZERO days.
My plan for 2026? ZERO days.
Check out this comment at the NY Post. Claims that NY State Taxation will check out your phone to see where you were really living. This must be done when NYS thinks you are cheating. They cannot be looking into past phone locations, after opening up an investigation, I believe. Not yet at least.
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Jun Gilbunnie
1 hour ago
CPA here - As crooked as she was (and is), this is different from income taxes. The law says 181 days or more determines your primary residence. Simple as that - drivers license, voter registration don’t matter anymore since NYS auditors will geofence your phone to determine where you are. Not a case of different rules for the ‘elites’.
Rush used to comment often about the state trying to rope him into their tax havens. BTW the California franchise tax board leads the way with its octopus style tax targeting.
The State of Texas has similar offices in other states to ensure they are receiving state sales taxes from companies that sell products to entities in TX. The company I worked for in OK sold a significant portion of our products in Texas so we got audited by them regularly. A lot of our sales were for the construction of schools so there was no tax due/collected. Texas does this because they have no income taxes so they are always in the hunt to collect sales taxes.
FROM PERPLEXITY AI>>>>
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Yes, you’re correct—New York State Department of Taxation and Finance (NYS DTF) can subpoena your cell carrier for historical geolocation data (cell tower records) covering prior years, typically focusing on the tax years under audit, such as 2024 or earlier if they question your July 2025 move to Florida.
Subpoena Requirement
NYS DTF routinely uses subpoenas or formal document requests to carriers like AT&T or Verizon for cell records in residency audits, as these are third-party business records not directly held by the state. They don’t need a criminal warrant (post-Carpenter standards apply more to law enforcement), but a tax subpoena suffices for audit purposes.
Scope for a July 2025 Move Audit
Audits often examine 2-3 prior full tax years (e.g., 2023, 2024) plus the part-year 2025 to verify domicile change and day counts.
Carriers retain tower data 1-5+ years, so subpoenas can pull records back to 2020 or earlier if relevant (e.g., to check patterns before your claimed move).
Focus is on the audit period, not unlimited history, but they reconstruct days via pings to challenge Florida residency claims.
Practical Reality
Auditors assume maximum NY days initially; cell data helps them argue presence unless you counter with stronger proof (Florida docs, logs). A subpoena is standard—they’ve done this in cases proving disputed days via AT&T pings.
Check out my post #30. How NYS will look/investigate at past years geo-locations for your phone. To see where you have really been living. I never new that cell carriers would data collect to store these records.
Back in the 1990s, I used to work with some wealthy Swedes who moved to other countries. They had to spend years planning the moves or else the Swedish government would continue to tax their income even after they left. The last stage of Socialism is not everyone leaving and the state running out of “Other Peoples’ Money.” Its the Socialist state going after those who left to try to squeeze money out of them in their new state.
When we left CA in 2010, there was serious talk about the state passing a law for “Exit Tax” on companies, and residents in higher income brackets.
We thought we were dodging a bullet by leaving quickly, but I don’t think that legislation ever happened. (We had to go, anyhow.)
“It won’t happen again, they will document their time spent in Florida this time.”
And it should take out of their mouths any remaining taste for Yankee voting habits.
You would think. I received a tax bill from NY and never lived or worked there.
They were extremely rude and aggressive, threatening to sue, etc.
States always challenge snowbird moves.
Smart snow birds to the A/B B/A ticket trick.
If you don’t know this, they buy two round trip tickets to Florida. One is, say ORD to MIA 11/1/24 return 12/20/25. The other is MIA to ORD 12/20/2024 return 11/20/2025.
Get it? They show Illinois the first ticket and say they went down in late 2024 and didn’t return to Illinois until they came back for Xmas 2025. But actually they use the second ticket for their return after just 6 weeks.
“You can come in, but you can never leave.”
Rush claimed he was audited every year by NY after he moved to Florida.
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