Posted on 11/02/2025 8:20:55 AM PST by logi_cal869
Investigations in the now-submerged cave systems on the Yucatán Peninsula continue to yield evidence for human presence during the Pleistocene-Holocene transition. Skeletal remains are scattered throughout the caves of Quintana Roo, most representing individuals who died in situ. The reasons why they explored these underground environments have remained unclear. Here, we announce the discovery of the first subterranean ochre mine of Paleoindian age found in the Americas, offering compelling evidence for mining in three cave systems on the eastern Yucatán over a ~2000-year period between ~12 and 10 ka. The cave passages exhibit preserved evidence for ochre extraction pits, speleothem digging tools, shattered and piled flowstone debris, cairn navigational markers, and hearths yielding charcoal from highly resinous wood species. The sophistication and extent of the activities demonstrate a readiness to venture into the dark zones of the caves to prospect and collect what was evidently a highly valued mineral resource.
(Excerpt) Read more at pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov ...
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"Whether ochre procurement or use by Paleoindian groups and their Old World predecessors constitutes evidence for ritual behavior or utilitarian purposes remains an ongoing anthropological discussion (12, 18), yet consensus suggests that the two are not mutually exclusive (19, 20)"
as representative of lingering institutional ignorance in the field of archaeology. The paper fails to address the fact that red ochre mining would only have served an already established society at a time which precedes accepted migration patterns by millennia.
Footnote: This is an update to a prior 2020 post whose source merely cited the caves as possible shelter. I was unable to find any other posts on the topic using multiple keywords in the title, certainly not this paper.
Prior post:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3843566/posts
I would argue that the discovery of mining activities as outlined pushes back migratory patterns for the Yucatan by at least hundreds of years preceding their established dateline in this paper (between 11.4 and 10.7 thousand years before present).
Fascinating stuff despite the ongoing, myopic nature of the scientists doing the work.
Submerged? Musta been climate malfunction. 😂👍
LOL. I wish that I could have linked the msn video. I was dubious then broke away to search for details and ended up reading the paper.
Fascinating stuff. Good science. Better: It was ALL underwater research. I confounded by the fact that I’d never heard about this before, published >5 years prior.
The ai doing the audio to the video I was watching kept orating ‘oka’ and reflected in the subtitles. Frankly, it did make me think about gumbo.
I didn’t know it was red ochre being referenced until I found the paper.
No, I think those were first developed by Okra Winfrey.
Somewhere around here I’ve got a velvet painting of Ochre-Playing Dogs.
Dang. Still stuff we don’t know. Well, except Dems. They know EVERYTHING. 😁👍. Have a good week.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre
When natural sienna and umber pigments are heated, they are dehydrated and some of the limonite is transformed into hematite, giving them more reddish colours, called burnt sienna and burnt umber. Ochres are non-toxic and can be used to make an oil paint that dries quickly and covers surfaces thoroughly. Modern ochre pigments often are made using synthetic iron oxide. Pigments which use natural ochre pigments indicate it with the name PY-43 (Pigment yellow 43) on the label, following the Colour Index International system.
www.paleoindianochredirect.com
Thanks. I’m pretty sure that they didn’t find any hieroglyphs in the caves. LOL
I’m now waiting for them to find pottery at the 10-11ka range to qualify the need to mine it. A settlement, too, or some connection to the megalithic stonework throughout the region. So much to discover.
It’s just so refreshing to see real science, ya know?
“…2000-year period between ~12 and 10 ka.”
KA is a new one to me, obviously a time period. Definition?
I had to look it up before posting:
“In the end, it is mostly accepted (although not precise and not backed by standards) to use “kyr” for time periods or durations and for time in the future and “ka” for age (or negative time) thus a period from 10.7 ka to 9.7 ka would be assumed to be in the past and have a duration of 1 kyr. “
e.g., “It is quite common that “ka” is used for “kiloyears ago”, so the “a” somehow stands for both, “annus” and “ago” (??!!)”
“If we could make a suggestion we recommend (like NIST ) to use “a” for “annus / anni” which is Latin for “year / years”. Normally events before today should extend to the left of a time axis and be negative time. Since this is impractical for most paleo-records, we suggest to consequently use “age [ka]” as the label of an age axis and use expressions such as “14.6 ka ago” in the text if you want to avoid negative time like “at -14.6 ka”.”
https://www.sedgeochem.uni-bremen.de/kiloyears.html
It seems to have been adopted. I’ve seen this reference numerous times and made the presumption prior that it referred to a negative time axis, aka ‘before present (BP).”
As I have stated previously, I had a double major of Spanish and archaeology. I eventually learned that one cannot pay a mortgage, or any other significant bill, with archaeology. To this day archaeology is fascinating.
I will never forget, back in the 1970s, when the “experts” declared that humans first came to North America 10,000 years ago. Over the Bering Straight during the last Ice Age. I decided not to raise my hand and challenge this idiocy. That humans walked into North America is true. When? Well, we shall see.
Archaeology is fascinating when real science is used. For some PhDs, saying “I don’t know” “I’m not sure” is difficult. For others, the beginning of wisdom is stating: “I don’t know.”
I used to loooove watching that 70’s show In Search Of. They would start by describing, showing “mysteries” of the ancient world. More than a few times, I had plenty of knowledge about what was on the television screen. When I would explain something, family and friends would say “well..... Why are they saying we don’t know?” Today, I would say click bait.
In Search of was my favorite program second to Perry Mason.
It was pretty cool to see the prior in color years later.
Perry Mason!
Yesssssssssss
Della Street, Oh, My!
Oh, yes.
Then Mary Ann.
Then Farrah.
Then I discovered redheads.
;-)
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