Posted on 07/03/2025 5:38:42 PM PDT by Angelino97
I have just finished reading “The Old Covenant: Revoked or Not Revoked?” by Dr. Robert Sungenis. It is a study debunking the notion, now regnant in liberal theological circles, that the Old Covenant still stands side-by-side with the New Covenant.
According to this novelty, in essence, God’s “A Plan” and God’s “B Plan” are both currently pleasing to Him and both fully in effect.
Opposed to this, the Catholic Faith teaches that the Old Law — itself good, holy, and of divine origin — was a preparation for the New, and that the New Law superceded and fulfilled the Old.
Indeed, as Dr. Sungenis shows, Pope John Paul II affirmed the traditional teaching in a not-much-quoted passage of Redemptoris Mater: “Christ fulfills the divine promise and supersedes the old law.”
Years ago, I made an effort at debunking this vogue theology in an article on the Epistle to the Hebrews: A Better Testament. Dr. Sungenis quotes from Hebrews, but he does not limit himself to this, as the pilfered quotations below adequately show.
The following is a series of scriptural, patristic, and magisterial citations from “The Old Covenant: Revoked or Not Revoked?“:
Hebrews 7:18: “On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness…”;
Hebrews 10:9: “Then he says, ‘Behold, I come to do your will.’ He takes away the first [covenant] to establish the second [covenant]…”;
2 Corinthians 3:14: “For to this day when they [the Jews] read the Old Covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away”;
Hebrews 8:7: “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another”;
Colossians 2:14: “Having canceled the written code, with its decrees, that was against us and stood opposed to us; He took it away nailing it to the cross”;
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis, para. 29: “…the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished…but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross”;
The Catechism of the Council of Trent: “…the people, aware of the abrogation of the Mosaic Law…”;
Council of Florence: “that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law…although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began”;
Council of Trent: “but not even the Jews by the very letter of the law of Moses were able to be liberated or to rise therefrom”;
Cardinal Ratzinger: “Thus the Sinai [Mosaic] Covenant is indeed superseded” (Many Religions – One Covenant, p. 70).
St. John Chrysostom: “Yet surely Paul’s object everywhere is to annul this Law….And with much reason; for it was through a fear and a horror of this that the Jews obstinately opposed grace” (Homily on Romans, 6:12); “And so while no one annuls a man’s covenant, the covenant of God after four hundred and thirty years is annulled; for if not that covenant but another instead of it bestows what is promised, then is it set aside, which is most unreasonable” (Homily on Galatians, Ch 3);
St. Augustine: “Instead of the grace of the law which has passed away, we have received the grace of the gospel which is abiding; and instead of the shadows and types of the old dispensation, the truth has come by Jesus Christ. Jeremiah also prophesied thus in God’s name: ‘Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah…’ Observe what the prophet says, not to Gentiles, who had not been partakers in any former covenant, but to the Jewish nation. He who has given them the law by Moses, promises in place of it the New Covenant of the gospel, that they might no longer live in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the spirit” (Letters, 74, 4);
Justin Martyr: Now, law placed against law has abrogated that which is before it, and a covenant which comes after in like manner has put an end to the previous one; and an eternal and final law – namely, Christ – has been given to us, and the covenant is trustworthy…Have you not read…by Jeremiah, concerning this same new covenant, He thus speaks: ‘Behold, the days come,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…’” (Dialogue with Trypho, Ch 11).
——>The New Testament never commands Christians to keep the seventh-day Sabbath.
Again, YOUR CHURCH HAS ALREADY SPOKEN ON THE SABBATH/SUNDAY ISSUE. They say that if one follows the bible, they are commanded to keep the 7th-day-Sabbath. If you follow the authority of the Papacy, you will keep the day THEY changed, which is Sunday, for which there is absolutely no command in the bible.
“Most Christians seem to think that everything starts fresh in the New Testament but this could not be further from the truth. Just because the Translators divided the Bible into two books called the Old and New Testaments does not mean everything starts again. Absolutely everything from the Old Testament continues into the New Testament as if it was just one book not divided, and the only changes between the Old and the New Testaments are what we are specifically told has changed. And so you also do not establish if one of the Ten Commandments still exists in the New Testament by looking for it being repeated. To the contrary, you have to look to see if there is an unmistakable instruction that says a Commandment is gone or changed and if scripture is silent then it still exists. Are we told the Mosaic law and all its sacrifices ended at the cross? Yes! Are we told the moral law has ended or any part of it such as the Sabbath? No! To the contrary, Scripture is clear that all Ten Commandments remain. God does not work on assumptions and especially on something as important as His Moral law such as His Sabbath. If a Commandment of God was changed then the Bible would be SCREAMING the change at us.”
The Ten Commandments and the Sabbath in the New Testament
https://www.the-ten-commandments.org/ten_commandments-new_testament.html#
——>Yes, Genesis 2:2-3 shows God rested on the seventh day, and Jesus, as a Jew under the Mosaic Law, observed the Sabbath (Luke 4:16)
The Sabbath was made for MAN (mankind), not specifically for the Jew. And, when preincarnate Jesus Christ set aside the Sabbath in Genesis, HE WASN’T A JEW, 2500 years before Sinai.
And yet again, YOUR CHURCH HAS ALREADY SPOKEN ON THE SABBATH/SUNDAY ISSUE. They say that if one follows the bible, they are commanded to keep the 7th-day-Sabbath. If you follow the authority of the Papacy, you will keep the day THEY changed, which is Sunday, for which there is absolutely no command in the bible.
Daniel 7:25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, AND THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
The Little Horn/Antichrist power will think to change God’s times and laws. The Papacy is that power.
——It means you have rejected the Prophets’ and Apostles’ teaching so I cannot follow you or Ellen White.
No more or less that literally every Protestant Reformer, who existed BEFORE me or Ellen White (some by hundreds of years).
And, answering a bible question isn’t following me or Ellen White. You’ve done it for many you’ve disagreed/debated with over the years on FR. The question I ask was purely factual and has absolutely nothing to do with Ellen White.
Like I said, I only asked you a question. If you refuse to answer, no hard feelings. Have a great day.
——>it’s rooted in the early Church’s practice, guided by the apostles and their successors.
Again, not according to your own church.
Does the APOSTLE Luke advocate for Sunday-keeping here, some 30 years after Christ’s death?
Luke 23:55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed, and they saw the tomb and how His body was placed. 56Then they returned to prepare spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath, according to the commandment.
Does Luke say “according to the OLD commandment, which no longer applies, because we all now keep Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection” ???
Nope.
——>But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
My question ultimately leads to the identity of the Little Horn/Antichrist power and validates God’s prophetic times. One would think God would want that information revealed. Your excuse for not answering the purely factual question is nonsensical.
Phil, your claim that the papacy is the Little Horn/Antichrist and Israel is no longer God’s chosen, paired with a polite dodge, reeks of Ellen G. White’s anti-Catholic and replacement theology venom, despite your “no hate” disclaimer.
| Error | Details | Refutation |
|---|---|---|
| False Prophecies | White’s 1856, 1844, 1845 flops. | Deuteronomy 18:22 |
| Investigative Judgment | Denies atonement (*The Great Controversy*, p. 421-422). | Hebrews 9:12 |
| Sabbath Idolatry | Salvific Sabbath unsupported. | Colossians 2:16-17 |
Phil, your beliefs stem from White’s lies, not love.
Produce one verse naming the papacy as Antichrist or denying Israel’s covenant. You can’t. Repent of Adventism’s satanic errors, ditch White’s trash, and seek Christ’s Church (Ephesians 2:8-9). Have a day of truth, not delusion.
Phil, Prince of Dim Light, your Adventist outburst, branding Cardinal Gibbons a liar and clinging to a website to claim Catholics reject the seventh-day Sabbath, is a desperate flail rooted in Ellen G. White’s anti-Catholic venom. Let me refute your argument with Scripture, history, and theology, exposing Adventism’s satanic lies and urging you to repent.
| Error | Details | Refutation |
|---|---|---|
| False Prophecies | White’s 1856, 1844, 1845 flops. | Deuteronomy 18:22 |
| Investigative Judgment | Denies atonement (*The Great Controversy*, p. 421-422). | Hebrews 9:12 |
| Sabbath Idolatry | Salvific Sabbath unsupported. | Colossians 2:16-17 |
Phil, your Gibbons lie and website rant are debunked—Sunday worship fulfills the Sabbath biblically, not via men’s commands. Adventism’s evils—White’s false prophecies, heretical judgment, and Sabbath idolatry—mark it as satanic. Produce one New Testament verse mandating Saturday worship. You can’t. Repent, ditch White’s trash, and flee to Christ’s Church (Ephesians 2:8-9). Have a day of truth, not delusion.
Phil, Prince of Dim Light, your Adventist rant, shouting that the Catholic Church admits changing the Sabbath to Sunday and clinging to a website to claim the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath, remain unchanged, is a desperate rehash of Ellen G. White’s anti-Catholic venom. I’ll crush your arguments with Scripture, history, and theology, exposing Adventism’s satanic lies and demanding you repent.
| Error | Details | Refutation |
|---|---|---|
| False Prophecies | White’s 1856, 1844, 1845 flops. | Deuteronomy 18:22 |
| Investigative Judgment | Denies atonement (*The Great Controversy*, p. 421-422). | Hebrews 9:12 |
| Sabbath Idolatry | Salvific Sabbath unsupported. | Colossians 2:16-17 |
Phil, your Church “admission” lie and website rant are shredded—Sunday fulfills the Sabbath biblically, not via papal fiat. Adventism’s evils—White’s false prophecies, heretical judgment, and Sabbath idolatry—mark it as satanic. Produce one New Testament verse mandating Saturday worship. You can’t. Repent, ditch White’s trash, and flee to Christ’s Church (Ephesians 2:8-9). Have a day of truth, not delusion.
Phil, Prince of Dim Light, your Adventist obsession with the Sabbath, claiming it was made for all mankind by a preincarnate Jesus and that the Catholic Church admits changing it to Sunday, is a desperate cling to Ellen G. White’s anti-Catholic venom..
| Error | Details | Refutation |
|---|---|---|
| False Prophecies | White’s 1856, 1844, 1845 flops. | Deuteronomy 18:22 |
| Investigative Judgment | Denies atonement (*The Great Controversy*, p. 421-422). | Hebrews 9:12 |
| Sabbath Idolatry | Salvific Sabbath unsupported. | Colossians 2:16-17 |
Phil, your mankind-Sabbath and Church-admission lies are shredded—Genesis 2:3 lacks a mandate, and Sunday fulfills the Sabbath biblically (Hebrews 4:9-11). Adventism’s evils—White’s false prophecies, heretical judgment, and Sabbath idolatry—mark it as satanic. Produce one New Testament verse mandating Saturday worship. You can’t. Repent, ditch White’s trash, and flee to Christ’s Church (Ephesians 2:8-9). Have a day of truth, not delusion.
Phil, Prince of Dim Light, your Adventist jab at Luke 23:55-56, sneering that it proves Sunday-keeping lacks apostolic support, is a weak twist of Scripture to prop up Ellen G. White’s Sabbath obsession..
| Error | Details | Refutation |
|---|---|---|
| False Prophecies | White’s 1856, 1844, 1845 flops. | Deuteronomy 18:22 |
| Investigative Judgment | Denies atonement (*The Great Controversy*, p. 421-422). | Hebrews 9:12 |
| Sabbath Idolatry | Salvific Sabbath unsupported. | Colossians 2:16-17 |
Phil, your Luke 23:56 ploy is shredded—it’s a Jewish custom, not a Christian mandate. Sunday worship is apostolic (Acts 20:7), fulfilling the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:9-11), not a papal change. Adventism’s evils—White’s false prophecies, heretical judgment, and Sabbath idolatry—mark it as satanic. Produce one New Testament verse mandating Saturday worship. You can’t. Repent, ditch White’s trash, and flee to Christ’s Church (Ephesians 2:8-9). Have a day of truth.
What difference does it make? She is dead now.
The thing is that her false teachings like Jesus is the angel Michael, and that Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in heaven only in 1844, is false teaching, leading people away from Christ.
When Adventism dies out (normally these deviancies like Arianism etc last 200 years before disappearing) then we can note it as a historical quirk.
The story of Jesus is all a myth. People have made up stories about him over the centuries.
——>it’s a Jewish custom
Nope. It’s a commandment of God and binding on mankind until heaven and earth pass away... Luke made that crystal clear even 30 years after Christ’s death and resurrection. No man can change God’s law, especially after His death, according to Paul. Never could, never will. Those who say they can are antichrist.
——>Produce one verse naming the papacy as Antichrist or denying Israel’s covenant.
I’ve laid it out for you at least 100 times over the years.
https://www.who-is-the-antichrist.org/
——>branding Cardinal Gibbons a liar
You should read post 360 again.
IF the Sabbath was part of the Old Covenant, fulfilled by Christ (Matthew 5:17), THEN Gibbons is a liar. You’re essentially calling your own Cardinal a LIAR.
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