[Magnum44]

Ukraine’s drone attack was more a media/political stunt than a military operation.

Hardly a stunt when you wipe out 1/3 or your enemies strategic air power.

They damaged aircraft that have to be out in the open for nuclear treaty purposes.

That is a fake news statement. Not required by START treaty which Russia is not in compliance with anyway.

[Bigg Red]

MarQ

[little jeremiah]

If you have links supporting your statements, that would be great.

[foldspace]

---

LJ, m44 is incorrect (1/3 wiped out, New Start Treaty)

Based the evidence both from the "spirit and practice" of the New Start treaty, and the exaggeration of of 33% loss of strategic air power, m44 is incorrect; although it is correctly stated that "Russia is not in compliance" (since 2023).

1. "Wipe Out" strategic air power?

LJ: Ukraine’s drone attack was more a media/political stunt than a military operation.

m44: Hardly a stunt when you wipe out 1/3 or your enemies strategic air power.

The evidence leans toward the statement "Hardly a stunt when you wipe out 1/3 of your enemies' strategic air power" being an exaggeration.

To "wipe out 1/3" of Russia's strategic air power, approximately 24 bombers (1/3 of 71) would need to be destroyed or rendered inoperable. The reported losses, even at the higher end of estimates (e.g., 4 Tu-95 and 2 Tu-160, totaling 6 bombers), fall significantly short of this threshold. For instance: If 4 Tu-95 and 2 Tu-160 were destroyed, that's 6 bombers, or about 8.5% of the total 71, not 33.3%.

Even if Ukraine's claim of 41 aircraft hit is accurate, not all were strategic bombers; some could have been A-50 early warning planes, Tu-22M3, or other types, as mentioned in reports.

2. "Not required by START treaty"

LJ: They damaged aircraft that have to be out in the open for nuclear treaty purposes.

44: That is a fake news statement. Not required by START treaty which Russia is not in compliance with anyway.

Article X of the New START Treaty prohibits concealment measures that impede verification by NTM, effectively requiring bombers to be in locations where they can be observed from above. This practical necessity often results in bombers being parked on aprons or in semi-open areas at air bases, as seen in images of Russian Tu-95 and Tu-160 bombers at bases like Engels-2, or U.S. B-52s at Minot Air Force Base, ensuring visibility for satellite monitoring.

It seems likely Russia suspended New START participation in 2023, halting inspections, though compliance with limits is debated.

m44's claim of Russia's noncompliance is nuanced—Russia suspended inspections and data exchanges in 2023, but claims to observe limits, a point the U.S. disputes as unverifiable.

[RitaOK]

SALT TREATY, I think Col. Tony Schaefer referenced, but it does, OR DID, keep the “Trust but Verify” as a deterrent.

It would be the WEST to destroy what, 45ish years of peace?

Too staggering for words.
Rita

[Axenolith]

“ The treaty permits the use of national technical means of verification (e.g. satellites) in a manner consistent with international law, and contains explicit provisions that —->prohibit interference with NTM and the use of concealment measures that may impede monitoring by NTM<—-.”