Posted on 02/18/2025 5:53:55 AM PST by V_TWIN
Shocking new footage captured the disastrous landing of the Delta Air Lines plane that flipped over at Toronto Pearson International Airport on Monday — showing it bursting into flames and then tipping over as it skidded on the snow-covered runway.
Horrifying new footage shared on X shows flames erupting out of Delta Flight 4819 as the plane skids to the ground amidst harsh conditions, including blustery 40 mph winds that sent snow swirling through the air.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
“looks like steep landing, with a hard hit that collapsed the right landing gear....”
That’s pretty much what I saw.
The speculation is that a wind gust caused a wing to hit the ground and rip off, causing the other wing to flip it over
“Maybe the runway should have been closed.”
Snow isn’t a new thing for Canada, but having DEIs making life and death decisions is relatively new for them.
Hitting the ground that hard might have even resulted in some spinal injuries.
It took a considerably long time for this video to be made public... Maybe I’m just being cynical, but was somebody profiting from this tragedy???
This video shows us two things.
First of all... That this wasn’t just a simple gust of wind that turned the plane over... There was obviously a problem with the landing itself. One commentator said the plane appeared to be coming in too fast, which means that the wind could still be a contributing factor, but now pilot error also comes into play.
The video also shows us that these people were very lucky to have survived. Some of the passengers said that their cloths were were soaked with fuel... That must have been terrifying.
I suppose when they interview the pilot that might be his testimony.
In the video at the NY Post it appeared to me that he was coming in and descending too fast and the landing gear just couldn’t handle it................
I’ve seen a couple of interviews with passengers. One who is a paramedic said when they were upside down after the plane had come to a stop he could see and smell fuel pouring down the windows. He knew they all had to get outside and as far away from the plane asap.
Yes the rate of descent was said to be much more than usual. Way way more than standard.
Bearing in mind that early reports are usually wrong, and sitting in my FR ‘expert’ arm chair, I’ll offer the following:
Rate of descent on final approach was (early) reported to be 1100 feet per minute and KIAS (knots indicated air speed) less than 130 knots. This is arguably too fast of a descent on approach (should be ~500 fpm or less). Don’t know the crosswind component so can’t comment on the proper airspeed, plus I was never typed in ANY jet, so experts (for real) can point to a proper airspeed. Yet the <130 KIAS seems quite slow.
It looked like the pilot did have the right wing dropped (normal flying behavior) to counter drift from the crosswind, but higher airspeed would have helped reduce the required roll and rudder to ‘crab’ onto the centerline of the runway.
Couple that roll ° plus low airspeed plus high rate of descent adds up to a HARD touchdown on the right gear *perhaps* leading to structural failure or at least blown tires. Both would yaw the plane to the right. *IF* the right wing hit the earth the plane is going to ground loop in a clockwise manner. At some point the wing detached from the fuselage. My obeervation from my FR arm chair looking at the fuselage is that the wing came off ‘cleanly’ as if the attachment points failed/bolts sheared. The CRJ (per the internet) only carries fuel in the wings, so the fire was from the fuel leaking from the right wing. Per se the plane’s fuselage did not erupt in flames, only the fuel from the wing(s).
Also PRESUMING the plane landed that hard, some of the injuries may have occurred right then.
My FR armchair opinion is that the pilot blew the approach yet proceeded to attempt the landing due to get-there-itis. I have been there and saved a landing, but by the time I finished engine shutdown, I knew I did a stupid thing.
Net: pilot error all the way.
Now getting out of my armchair to go pee 😉
Sabotage?
Observers on aviation sites have noted what appears to be:
- no flaps
- possible premature thrust reverser deploy
- very hard landing with immediate right gear collapse
My guess is that there was also a right wing fuel tank rupture, and the impressive but not deadly fire was merely due to fuel vapor reaching the engines.
Too fast descent at too great of a speed?
Icing maybe?
The aircraft might have been on a stable, 500-per-minute descent, but I didn’t see the flare near the end to arrest the descent. I’m not surprised to see this result in collapse of the landing gear and snapping at the right wing off.
It is difficult to land on a snow-covered runway.
“Net: pilot error all the way.”
Stay in that arm chair. Why would the pilot descend too fast or deviate from a normal glide path, factoring in winds. Wouldn’t the controller have mentioned his rapid descent rate?
It looked like it hit the runway really hard, causing landing bear to snap
It looked like it hit the runway really hard, causing landing bear to snap
It looked to me as if the plane, on very short final suddenly lost some of the headwind as the wind was gusting. This would result in sudden loss of altitude and that very hard landing which probably snapped the landing gear. If that was the case, there was no time for the pilots to correct and reverse the loss of lift while they were that close to the runway. In retrospect, a go-around before that point in the approach might have resulted in a different outcome. Thank God there were no fatalities.
Well your question about “why?” is addressed by my get-there-itis comment. As a pilot there is often a desire to not go around on a blown approach, but rather to find a way to “get there.” Same applies to marginal or deteriorating weather, where the right decision is to make a 180° turn and get to a smart alternate. I’ve been a passenger on a 737 flight into Ohare that should have been a divert due to winds. Alternately I’ve been on a couple Delta flights that diverted due to weather.
So let’s say the pilot is high, above the glideslope on final. Lower airspeed yields altitude loss, duh. So that leads to a faster than proper rate of descent. 1100 fpm is too high. Correct able with power and time.
Another reason as to why is that the pilot(s) got well behind the aircraft and did the wrong thing- landed. ** we don’t know ** but given what we think we know and see, a missed approach would have been the right choice. <-— this is pilot(s) error.
I never had a controller advise me on my altitude on final, BTW. Can’t speak for airlines into Toronto. On final, ya tend to get focused on flying the aircraft and the approach while the first officer communicates important data like altitude, speed, flap settings etc. PIC flies the plane with the updates from the co pilot. That’s my experience. Can’t speak for Delta cockpit procedures. I never piloted jets and never had a commercial rating.
Does this answer your question?
That looks like a very reasonable analysis.
Thanks.
Yeah, I didn’t see a flare either.
Lots we don’t know, like what was the crosswind component, what’s the correct airspeed and flap settings for that approach. On and on.
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