To: DiogenesLamp
quoting BJK:
"The truth is that Confederates from Day One were highly aggressive expansionists -- invading Union states, stealing Union property wherever and whenever they could."DiogenesLamp: "I think you are referring to spontaneous efforts by civilians to gain support for the Confederacy in states like Missouri and Kentucky, but i'm not sure.
If governments are supposed to be responsible for the irrational hot heads that cause problems, but who have no official backing, should we say John Brown and his wealthy Massachusetts backers started the Civil War?"
I'm referring to the following:
- In December, 1860, secessionist governments & mobs began seizing Federal properties (forts, ships, arsenals, mints, etc.) and threatening Union officials -- many of those in still-Union states.
No such seizure was ever punished (as John Brown was punished) or returned. - On January 8, 1861, a secessionist mob in still-Union Florida threatened Union troops in Fort Pickens.

- On January 9, Secessionist forces fired artillery on the Union resupply ship Star of the West, near Charleston Harbor.
- On April 12, Confederates demanded surrender of Union Fort Sumter and began artillery barrages when Sumter's commander was deemed too slow.
- On April 19, in Union Maryland, secessionists fired on, killed & wounded dozens of Union troops in Baltimore.
- On April 21, Confederate forces in still-Union Virginia seized Gosport Naval Yard, Norfolk, VA.
- April 23, a month before any Union "invasion" of Confederate Virginia, Confederates sent military aid and forces into Union states, notably Union Missouri (April 23), but also Union West Virginia (May 14) and later Kentucky (Sept 3).
- From April 23, Union troops captured in Texas were treated as POWs.
- On April 26, Georgia's governor ordered the repudiation of all debts owed to Union creditors.
May 6, 1861, Confederate Declaration of War on the United States:

- On April 29, the Confederate congress granted Jefferson Davis war powers.
- On May 6, the Confederate congress formally declared war on the United States.
- On May 9, CSA Pres. Davis authorized 400,000 Confederate troops and ordered 6 new warships from abroad.
- In June, Confederate forces invaded Union Indian (Oklahoma) Territory.
- On July 8, Confederate forces invaded Union New Mexico Territory.
- On Sept 24, Confederate forces invaded Union Maryland.
My point is: from Day One in 1860, there was never a time when Confederate forces were not on offense against Union properties, territories and military forces.
154 posted on
01/08/2025 5:55:13 AM PST by
BroJoeK
(future DDG 134 -- we remember)
To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp
Confederates merely steal. General Sherman burning Atlanta was an act of pure barbarism
155 posted on
01/08/2025 5:58:50 AM PST by
bert
( (KE. NP. +12) Where is ZORRO when California so desperately needs him?)
To: BroJoeK
On January 8, 1861, a secessionist mob in still-Union Florida threatened Union troops in Fort Pickens. They walked up to the fort to see what was going on there in the middle of the night, and they were shot at by Union forces who had seized the abandoned fort in the darkness.
This is why the stuff you say can't be taken at face value. You always present it in a way that favors what you want people to believe rather than the objective truth.
160 posted on
01/08/2025 7:13:58 AM PST by
DiogenesLamp
("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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