Posted on 08/06/2024 11:12:14 AM PDT by SteveH
i believe texas has explicitly reserved the right to secede when it joined the USA. also the constitution does not prohibit other states and while the war between the states was fought over this, there was never a court case to determine this.
looking at a 2020 map of blue and red counties, it seems apparent that most counties favor trump. this can reasonably be expected to continue through 2024.
if the election fraud continues in 2024 as is widely anticipated, what would prohibit
1. texas state from peacefully seceding and forming an independent republic of texas
2. individual counties peacefully seceding from their states and joining texas.
i posit this as a peaceful alternative to (violent) civil war.
in this manner, most counties across the USA can peacefully secede, eventually leaving isolated clumps of socialist cities such as New York City, San Francisco, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.
Nothing would prevent such socialist cities from remaining in whatever is left of the USA once secession is complete.
The new republic of texas government could be a clone of the USA government, minus the 16th and 17th amendment.
this hypothetical proposal would be supported by the words at the beginning of the declaration of independence.
nothing in this hypothetical proposal should be construed as advocating violence.
The Founders got a lot of things right. But they dropped the ball on a few things. One of them was the right of a state to secede.
Such a process should be difficult, and lengthy. But also constitutional, and doable.
Maybe a 2/3 vote for secession. And two such votes, separated by six years.
Just thinking out loud.
(I picked 2/3 in the above because it’s the standard to do something dramatic, like overriding a presidential veto.)
Let’s say for the sake of argument that many counties in Texas agree to secede/partition.
What would happen to the US military bases in those areas? Would they default to the the new state of Texas? What if the US were unwilling to give them up? Would we have a number of Fort Sumter-style stand-offs? Or could those stand-offs develop into actual armed conflicts where local military tries to seize them thru force?
Can you go ahead and post the part of the US Constitution that prohibits state secession. I'll wait....
“I didn’t say Texas can’t do it—I said they did not “reserve the right” to secede when they joined the union.”
It really does not matter it hey “reserved the right...” or not.
I would also assume that Texas actually thought that the US gov would protect and defend Texas against an invasion.
But, here we are.
> It may be encouraged by Kamala (aka Soros/ CCP etc) to ALLOW them to peacefully leave. <
You make a reasonable argument for the Left to allow Texas to leave.
But today’s Leftists do not think rationally, ever. For them, it’s all about keeping control over every last thing. The “green” energy fiasco is a good example of that. It’s obviously a failed program. But full speed ahead anyway.
Don’t get me wrong—I fully agree with you. I think TX should secede. Fedzilla has broken the covenant and no longer deserves loyalty.
I'm, What happened on 2/24/2022?
The Founders put in the tenth amendment to protect all states.
That has been a total fail—and not their fault.
*um
> Saying, judge, I believe this.
augmented by the declaration of independence (when in the course of human events etc).
this was never tested in the trial of jefferson davis (a trial which never occurred despite davis being arrested and jailed after the war between the states). the generally circulated reason given in history is that had jefferson been tried, he would have given the self-determination reason as justifcation for innocence. and since self determination is supported by the founding fathers in the declaration of independence, it was generally presumed that davis would have been found innocent. davis’ innocence would imply that the war between the states was not justified. therefore, davis was released without indictment, and the question of self determination justifying de facto assertion of independence from the USA itself left technically unheard in court.
unheard does not equal unjustified.
> Common misconception, but incorrect.
cite?
Ukraine is an excellent example of the kind of mess you would see—because it is not just Ukraine vs Russia but it is also parts of Eastern Ukraine against the rest of Ukraine—which was a disaster waiting to happen once Ukraine got its independence.
In most of our states it is the urban areas that have values and goals radically different from the rest of the state.
> Advocating, no. But do you really expect the left not to react violently?
it would be ~2000 counties versus ~30 counties. so you tell me who wins.
> And their media lapdogs to not blame us?
see above
I guess you missed my sarcasm there. I’ll take responsibility for not ending things with a /s.
🙂
The whole point of my post #7 is that the United States believes in self-determination for everyone, everywhere. But hypocritically, the US will not allow it for its own citizens.
If I ever become president, I will propose a reasonable plan for state secession. Please see my post #21.
You are looking at a Spanish Civil War scenario where some areas were relatively calm while other areas had neighbor against neighbor.
The map was definitely not the territory in that war.
> Even before Texas formally rejoined the nation, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that secession had never been legal, and that, even during the rebellion, Texas continued to be a state.”
> Sounds like that Supreme Court decision would have to be overturned.
it would be interesting to learn more. specifically, when and how did the USA serve CSA state of texas with a notice of trial? was the notice, if there even was a notice, legal?
> What happened on 2/24/2022? <
That’s a squabble between two ex-USSR countries. And not the first. Given that it started many years after the partition, I do not think the partition itself can be blamed.
On the other hand, enormous violence broke out between India and Pakistan during the partition. If the US ever breaks up, will we be wise enough to avoid the India/Pakistan case?
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