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What happens when there is nobody who can command troops?
Today | Jonty30

Posted on 06/29/2024 10:03:58 AM PDT by Jonty30

I'm just wondering. This question came up in Quora. I could only answer from a British tradition, where if you have officers of equal rank then the eldest officer is given command. Presumably the same is if there are only privates left, the eldest private would take command until a senior can be found to take command.

However, I don't what happens in American tradition. If you have officers of equal rank, who gets command or if the lowest ranks soldiers find themselves without a senior officer, what is the American military procedure to deciding who gets command until a senior officer can be found to take command?


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: vanity
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To: Vermont Lt

Privates also have a date when they made their rank, there is no Lord of the Flies chaos over rank.


41 posted on 06/29/2024 12:01:59 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Newbomb Turk
I think you set out well that there are so many officers these days, and such elaborate arrangements for how they step up, and communication with higher HQs, that it isn’t often the question arises.

I have been rereading an account of the Peninsular War, 1808-14. In the Duke of Wellington’s British Army, there were no XOs, one staff officer at Brigade HQ, maybe, but none below that, less than a handful at Division HQs, and a couple of handfuls at Army HQ. If a Division Commander was killed, seriously wounded, or home on leave, there was typically no replacement available, and for the months it took the Commander to recover, or for a replacement to sail from England, the senior Brigade Commander, Battalion Commander in that Brigade, Company Commander in that Battalion, Platoon Commander in that Company, and Sub-Lieutenant without a Platoon, temporarily moved up a step in command.

42 posted on 06/29/2024 12:09:47 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Paal Gulli

“””””It is pretty much a universal military tradition that someone is always in charge, and that someone is the senior ranking individual present, regardless of rank. Which might be a Private First Class being in charge over a bunch of privates E-1 or E-2.
In protracted wars it is not that uncommon for an enlisted man (what the British call “other ranks”) to take command because all the officers have been killed or wounded but otherwise rendered combat ineffective. But someone is always in charge.””””””

You gave another good description, someone is “always in charge”.


43 posted on 06/29/2024 12:12:32 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12
Date of rank determines the sonority in the American military, between equals.

The "between equals" needs clarification.

In the Air Force for example, line officers (command of operational, tactical, or combat units) and non-line officers (lawyers, chaplains, civil engineers, medical, logistics, finance) have distinct chains. A non-rated officer may outrank a rated officer but will not command line operations (aircraft, missiles, etc). A rated officer may outrank a non-rated officer but the rated officer will not direct the base operations (civil engineering, base security, the hospital, finance, etc).

Within each chain, in a pool of officers who were promoted on the exact same day, those with regular commissions would outrank those with reserve commissions. This has been a disappearing distinction since 2005 when all officers who entered active duty are commissioned as regular officers and all officers with reserve commissions were transferred to regular status, but there could still be a few individuals with reserve commissions due to age requirements. (We'd see this once in a while with someone who had an extended break in service - usually medical - who returned to Active Duty).

The Judge Advocate General (JAG) and Area Defense Counsel (ADC) usually fall under a district, not a base or a wing. Their chain of command would cross different bases and even Major Commands.

Medical officers are also normally outside the chain when deployed so as to maintain the separation required for international humanitarian law.

44 posted on 06/29/2024 1:20:57 PM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: Jonty30

Whoever has the nicest dress with matching purse and pumps.


45 posted on 06/29/2024 1:33:34 PM PDT by FrozenAssets (You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it helps)
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To: ansel12

Yeah, that sounds good in theory.


46 posted on 06/29/2024 1:37:51 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Don’t vote for anyone over 70 years old. Get rid of the geriatric politicians.)
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To: T.B. Yoits

That is a good explanation, I was going to post the simple example of medical officers not going to take over a tactical unit, but your version is much better.


47 posted on 06/29/2024 1:51:44 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Vermont Lt

Theory?

Your lack of military service is showing.


48 posted on 06/29/2024 1:52:48 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Bringbackthedraft

After seeing some training films of todays military I am astounded by the condition of many of the troops, they all seem to be overweight, sloppy looking and unable to march in an orderly manner. Not only that but many of them seem to be on the short side and it’s not just women. I was looking at some films from Ft. Ord on the 70’s and the trainees looked sharp, well conditioned and marched like the 101st Airborne in New York after WWII ended. Something is rotten in our military and we better fix it.


49 posted on 06/29/2024 2:02:06 PM PDT by ABN 505 (Right is right if nobody is right, and wrong is wrong if everybody is wrong. ~Archbishop Fulton John)
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To: Jonty30

If you are marine, basically, if there’s no commanding officer left, it’s the scariest thing in the world. In all other countries, the commanding officers protect the troops. In the US Marines, the officers are there to protect the enemy combatants. Without a CO, they will have to have Geneva make new rules.


50 posted on 06/29/2024 2:06:54 PM PDT by spacewarp (Want freedom? Reject Dems.)
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To: spacewarp

Love that.


51 posted on 06/29/2024 2:15:43 PM PDT by Jonty30 (He hunted a mammoth for me, just because I said I was hungry. He is such a good friend. )
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To: ansel12

Yeah…ok.

Whatever.


52 posted on 06/29/2024 2:21:11 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Don’t vote for anyone over 70 years old. Get rid of the geriatric politicians.)
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To: ABN 505

Try this video, they look pretty much the same as we did when we were in.

INSIDE the ‘Hunter Killer Platoon’ of the 101st Airborne Division
https://www.realcleardefense.com/video/2024/06/25/inside_the_hunter_killer_platoon_of_the_101st_airborne_division_1040254.html


53 posted on 06/29/2024 2:24:39 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

Makes me feel better, they look like the guys I served with. Too busy training no time for DEI classes, maybe there is hope.


54 posted on 06/29/2024 2:41:12 PM PDT by ABN 505 (Right is right if nobody is right, and wrong is wrong if everybody is wrong. ~Archbishop Fulton John)
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To: Jonty30

The one who guesses the most correct pronouns.


55 posted on 06/29/2024 3:12:52 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (Either ‘the Deep State destroys America, or we destroy the Deep State.’ --Donald Trump)
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To: ABN 505

I saw something similar in private security videos showing the contract officer slouching down the corridor half-heartedly checking hopefully locked doors.Uniform not in order,etc.Impression of someone who didn’t give a s##t.

I would have had a serious talk with that officer not used him as the example of my employee performance in training and advertising.

But then I have clients and guests assume military experience due to bearing and manner.

A business or military run by people who have never worked in the field is fatally flawed.


56 posted on 06/29/2024 3:17:11 PM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isnt free)
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To: Jonty30

A quick round of rock-paper-scissors.


57 posted on 06/29/2024 6:09:27 PM PDT by HartleyMBaldwin
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To: Jonty30

Common agreement is the democratic way. Leads to strong ‘”leadership” with the one willing to become senior bcked by the one willing to be the junior backing the senior, and thus down the line. Even where thie organization’s structure is amply fulfilled, practical usage in combat tends to sort out who is really in command.


58 posted on 06/29/2024 8:39:20 PM PDT by imardmd1 (To learn is to live; the joy of living: to teach. Fiat Lux!)
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To: Bonemaker

And if it’s still a tie, time in service comes next. If it’s still tied then it’s something like flip a coin or cut cards.


59 posted on 06/29/2024 8:46:39 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (“History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes” - Possibly Mark Twain.)
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