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">>>>I honestly wonder why these leftists don’t go to a site more in line with their ideology like DU or Daily KOS. I guess they’re getting paid to disrupt this one.<<<<<"

bimboeruption: "Either they’re getting paid, or they’re extremely stupid."

So, let's begin here -- if Ronald Reagan is now a "leftist" and Russians are somehow "conservative", then Russian propaganda has succeeded beyond its wildest dreams during Reagan's lifetime.

And let's acknowledge the core of the pro-Russian argument, repeated here cheerfully: "I don’t want my tax dollars going unaudited to a known money laundering operation."
In short, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is none of our business.

The core of the pro-Ukraine argument has three elements:

When a man is being murdered or a woman raped, you can't stand by and pretend you're "neutral", since that in fact favors the murderer and rapist.
The danger to the US is the same as in any number of historical analogies, from the invasion of Ethiopia in 1935 to China in 1936, to Austria in 1938, Czechoslovakia in 1939, and many more, all were "not our business" until they suddenly became our business on December 7, 1941.
Like the Old Soviet Ministry for Agitation and Propaganda (Agitprop) virtually 100% of information that originates from today's Russian government is a lie.
You repeat Russian lies at the peril of your own integrity.

In 1940 something like 80% of Americans opposed sending "American boys" to fight in "foreign wars", and opponents weren't all midwestern conservative isolationists.
Some were leftist Democrats who took their sympathies from Moscow and were happy to let Hitler and Stalin divvy up Poland and the Baltic Countries.

US Communists' support for isolationism ended when Hitler invaded the Old Soviet Union, but still the vast majority of Americans did not want the US to fight the war.
They were, however, totally OK with FDR's Lend Lease plan for sending $billions to mainly Britain but also to France, the USSR and Nationalist China.

This is where we are today, with the vast majority of Americans opposed to sending US troops to fight in Ukraine, but willing to support aid to Ukrainians.
Still, many anti-Ukers today don't recognize the dangers posed by the New Axis of Evil Dictators and insist that costs and risks from opposing such dictators are greater than from letting evil have its way, and so they don't even support US aid to Ukraine.

Where do Republicans stand?
I looked up swing-state Pennsylvania's congressional vote on Ukraine aid.
Pennsylvania has eight Republican congressmen and in April five voted for aid to Ukraine, two voted against and one abstained.

Here on Free Republic, if this thread is any indicator, then our anti-Ukers outnumber and out-post pro-Ukrainers by roughly two to one, and anti-Ukers are highly proficient in mocking, insulting and personal attacks on those who support Ukraine.
They also seem to enjoy protections from the "powers that be" who would not tolerate such behavior from the rest of us.

Finally, it's worth remembering that since the 1968 anti-war riots at the Chicago Democratic National Convention, any Americans who opposed war in principle -- such as religious pacifists or libertarians -- had only one political home, and that was the Democrats, who consistently opposed military actions led by Republican presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush and Bush.
Now that Democrats are leading their own semi-war in Ukraine, I think Donald Trump sees an opportunity to win back some votes which would not support previous "war monger" Republicans.

Whether this will cost Trump enough old-style Reagan Conservative votes to lose this election is unknown now, though polls suggest that it won't.

Bottom line is that we do neither Donald Trump nor Free Republic any favors if we let the acrimony between pro and anti-Ukrainers get so high it drives people away from the site and from voting for Donald Trump.

imho yrmv

BroJoeK,

There are many people posting here and even among those that are pro-Ukraine war, or against the war, where you will find different persuasions as to cause, the way forward, etc.

This is for MOST not about being pro-Ukraine or pro-Russian, that is you.

This is about a stupid war that was not necessary. There was no need for this: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

This is about a war that was predictable.

This is about a war with nearly a pre-determined outcome.

This is a war not benefiting Ukraine, Western or Central Europe, the US, or Russia.

The only winner here is a small group of folks in the financial (example: Black Rock, JPMC) and defense industries. The rest of the people, the average citizen in Germany, the US, Ukraine or Russia, are (((ALL))) losers. Yes, we are losers since in the grand scheme of things, I am less wealthy and less safe because of this conflict. I am forced to be a loser because I also sit in the same boat and the morons Aspen, Blinken, Nuland, Biden, Sullivan are at the wheel, which steered us into this mess.

For you, this might be about choosing sides and some deep instilled hatred/distrust for Russia.

However, for most against this war, it is about a senseless destruction of wealth and life, the infliction of pain and fear that was entirely avoidable.

Now, we are in the odd situation of pretending like we have a moral high ground and are winning (although the winning myth is fading).

This is the result of a colossal policy failure, no different than the withdraw from Afghanistan and how that unfolded.

The only difference here, is that because of the nature of this conflict, the average layperson will lay blame for this conflict on who shot first, i.e. Russia. The lead up to the war and what really caused it is intentionally ignored (pointless in having a debate with people that are insincere - they are not interested in truth). The MSM that is favorable to the Democrats and Biden, a foreign (European) MSM which is on board with this conflict (same interests which were driving them), causes us to have a near one sided message with little to no dissent in the MSM. Here on the FR, where a few folks actually think on their own and don’t just regurgitate what they read in the MSM and social media, you will find some differing viewpoints.

Sorry you feel threatened by people that have different view points. If you feel it’s a problem that you’re outnumbered 2:1 according to you, then simply go to the MSM or Social media outlets where except for a small minority like TCN which actually are off the beaten path, you will see a massage in agreement with yours. From NBC, CNN, CBS, Huffington Post, the NYT’s, to the Dallas Morning News... they are (((ALL))) in step with your view point, so maybe it’s you that needs to think about what platform to use if it bothers you that others see things differently.

Traditionally, the conservative view is not that expeditionary, expansionist, globalist (supra national), for profit or politically motivated military campaigns are a good thing. Traditionally, from the very beginning, the idea is that the US should keep out of European affairs, be nearly neutral and what we today would describe with the pejorative: “isolationist.” If you were to time-travel, you’d see that the views of Rand and Ron Paul are pretty much what our Founding Fathers espoused.

From the very beginning: https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/past-projects/quotes/article/it-is-our-true-policy-to-steer-clear-of-permanent-alliance-with-any-portion-of-the-foreign-world/

You have some very interesting ideas of what it means to be “conservative.”