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To: daniel1212
So man's choices should not effect what is under his control, even though man has also been God-given much means to counter act the effects.

Never said that Man was guiltless, and/or was unable to remediate, slightly, some of the effects of Man's unwise choices. Or that Man shouldn't, ideally, abstain from willfully committing evil acts.

RATHER, I referenced supernovas causing Mass Extinctions, sunspots, etc.

Man has no means to adequately counteract such effects. Man a thousand years ago certainly did not have the means.

You are constantly diverting via "Tu quoque!" Let's stick with the question at hand: No one here disputes that humans are faulty, and often make bad decisions, and cause suffering. Rather, we discussing the Evil that God tacitly allows, does not immediately avert, needlessly permits. Mass Extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations, etc.

How do you explain them away?

SPECIFICALLY: How would it impair Man's "Free Will" if such natural catastrophes were simply not allowed?

Regards,

327 posted on 09/03/2023 11:12:53 PM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
You are constantly diverting via "Tu quoque!" Let's stick with the question at hand: No one here disputes that humans are faulty, and often make bad decisions, and cause suffering. Rather, we discussing the Evil that God tacitly allows, does not immediately avert, needlessly permits. Mass Extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations, etc..

"Needlessly permits?" With mass extinctions being unrelated to man's choices? You are constantly engaging in an argument from omniscience, as if exceedingly rare mass extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations, cannot be a judgment due to sin (the Flood, Pompeii) by an omniscient being who knows every action of man, and his motives, and every single effect of man's actions, as well as His own.

But that you, as a exceedingly finite very ignorant speck in this universe, and in time, knows that these exceedingly rare extinctions are needlessly permitted, even as allowed or sent by Being in the light of all that can be known?

Rather than a moral argument against God, that fact that man, who was given good things and good laws, with the norm being that people eat and drink, have sex and families, see sunsets, etc.
with attributes that give him dominance above all other earthly creature, and suffer as a result - direct and indirect - of the disobedience of man,
breaking God's good laws, beginning with man's basic innate sense of right and wrong, and corrupt conscience, and misusing the good things God gave and gives, perverting or abusing such, making a mess of society as well as the world,
has not suffered a mass extinction (which by man's own actions he is now able to inflict upon himself), is a testimony to God's long-suffering.

You want an earthly paradise with no such judgments? That is a reality that only results for those who ultimately manifest they want the Light over the Darkness, God over sin, by His grace.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21)

338 posted on 09/04/2023 3:39:47 AM PDT by daniel1212 (As a damned+destitute sinner turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves souls on His acct + b baptized 2 obey)
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To: alexander_busek
Mass Extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations, etc.

What choice have we?

We either play the hand we are dealt; or pick up our money and go home.

350 posted on 09/04/2023 4:21:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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