Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212
Certainly that logical fallacy, a superficial ignorant parroted polemic (such as invokes everything from the Flood to AIDS as a moral argument against God), can be answered. There simply is no contradiction btwn God being omnipotent (and omniscient) and all good (from whom all good has come, as the creator of an exceedingly vast, systematicity ordered universe, exquisitely fine-tuned for our physical life), and the allowance of evil, For unless you want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot, then allowing evil is a necessary good if: Man is to be a being with the ability to make moral choices; And if such choices are to have effects/consequences, for both good and evil, And which consequences can affect others as well as self, directly or indirectly. But which God can make to ultimately work out for what is Good, in the light of all that can be known. Which includes just punishment for eternal beings which manifest they wanted the opposite of God, (John 3:19–21) though only being punished according to what they could and did choose to do, (Deuteronomy 24:16; Luke 10:1- 15; Revelation 20:12; cf. 2 Corinthians 8:12) while making all to work out to the benefit of those who honestly choose Him over sin, seeking and finding the mercy of God in the Lord Christ. (Roman 8:28) Consider some alternatives. God could have, 1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible, even as with clouds]. 2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices, and no devil or God]. 3. left man only with recourse to finite competing sources as his ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security, and supreme judge of what is good [atheism and atheistic governments]. 4. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security as being what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things being one's "god," and provided moral revelation and influences. Yet always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (even if as by making believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and always doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary - so that no man could attempt to make excuses for not believing in Him [effective negation of any freedom to choose]). 5. allowed created beings a negative alternative to faithfulness to the creator, and the ability to choose evil, but immediately reversed any effects and not penalized such [negation of consequences to choices]. 6. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [isolated consequences to choices]. 7. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of judicial and eternal consequences, positive or negative]. 8. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose between, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice]. 9. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for what is Good, with justice yet with mercy, and grace, towards those who want good, and who thus the One who is supremely Good. 10. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God's own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one's quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees relative to iniquity and accountability, those whose response to God's revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given]. But man, as an exceedingly finite being who is but a speck in this universe, and in the sea of humanity, and whose existence on earth occupies an infinitesimal amount of time, and who is very ignorant of what all the effects of his choices have been and will be, in time and eternity, and quite impotent to make them all work out as he/she wants, not only in one’s own life but in others, and for this life, as well as eternity, is in no position to sit in judgment upon an omniscient and omnipotent being and giver of life, who alone knows what all the effects will be of even our most seemingly insignificant actions or inactions, not only in this life but for eternity. And can make all work out for what is Good, for what is just, as well as showing mercy and grace. And which the God of the Bible has often manifestly done already, and promises to do for those who choose the ultimate Good, the living and true God, (Romans 8:28) by His grace, thanks be to God. This the choices of an omniscient omnipotent Being cannot be judged as being evil or good by extremely finite and relatively ignorant man. Not that - in my ignorance myself - I have/do not too often protested His dealing with me as I subjectively imagined Him, though objectively blessed, and I am being blessed right now listening to,
Remember, folks - pain is just God’s way of hurting us.
Evil is a product of man’s rebellion...
It separated us from God, for pure righteousness cannot coexist with evil...
This damned man to be apart from His creator... until Christ blood was shed to cleanse us from such... Forgiveness requires a blood sacrifice... Christ being the eternal High Priest and innocent lamb paid the price for eternity...
All He asks is for your acceptance of such and asking for His forgiveness...
If truly pursued He will live in you as you live in Him... His Father than sees His Son and not a sinner deserving condemnation... We than can be one with the Father again.
God is patient, He could come now and end all of the evil in this world... but He wants all that can be saved, to be saved...
We live in a time of grace... although forgiveness and salvation is a available it will present in a world where evil, trials and tribulations will occur...
But like a thief in the night He will return one day... and that will be a day of judgement...
Time is running out...
Thank you Jesus for providing us with a gift that is underserved... and showing us mercy...
Without Sin, would the world have remained pristine and perfect?
Does Sin cause natural catastrophes?
Did Christ's sacrifice eliminate natural catastrophes?
If not: WHY not?
Regards,
As for natural catastrophes... again, we live in a fallen world... this was not the original intention of our lives...
This too will end when judgement comes upon this world and His Kingdom is established here as in heaven...
Bkmk
I like the word receive.
We can be certain God chooses us. But do we choose him? The question baffles me.
We must submit to God. The concept of choosing seems to have an element of taking, which is not properly submissive.
As far as I can tell (which is not as far as others), the concept of receiving is both an active decision and consistent with submission.
Okay, but where does that take us, specifically, on the question of evil?
God gave US the authority over the devil. It is up to US to stop him
Amen brother... that is Truth
But if the Lord had acted immediately - i.e., at the first possible opportunity, thousands of years ago - many souls now facing damnation would never even have been born.
Better that no one had ever been born, but then no one had been damned.
Regards,
I think the “problem is evil” is very tough—and the happy talk or attempting to blame the victim does not resolve it.
My agnosticism is based not on a lack of appreciation for the boundless wonders of life and the universe. It is based on man’s lack of knowledge thereof.
To me, religious believers are the ones with hubris - claiming to know so much that can’t be known. Their arguments always boil down to… “if there is no God, then how do you explain [_______]? That’s the point - I can’t explain it and neither can you.
Cf. Batsell Baxters "Have Atheists Proved There Is No God."
What I mean is, your term “happy talk” doesn’t give us anything other than an emotional response. There is nothing concrete that can be directly applied.
But you give me nothing.
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. (John 15:16)Which is not opposed to man choosing. For man is not converted in his sleep, as instead man is called to choose. Yet in conversion the sinner does what he/she otherwise would not and could not do, but God provided salvation and grants repentant faith and works in us to obey), that of believing.
. For man could not and would not believe on the Lord Jesus or follow Him unless God gave him life, and breath, and all good things he has, (Acts 17:25) and convicted him, (Jn. 16:8) drew him, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) opened his heart, (Acts 16:14) and granted repentance (Acts 11:18) and gave faith, (Eph. 2:8, 9) and then worked in him both to will and to do of His good pleasure the works He commands them to do. (Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10)
Thus it is effectual faith which identifies a believer, and persevering in faith is exhorted, versus denying the faith, against developing an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from living God," from the faith they once held, falling from grace, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, drawing back to perdition," yielding to pressure to deny the faith after conversion so that Paul's labor would be in vain, (Gal. 5:1-5; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39; 1 Thessalonians 3:5)
No attempt to diminish God can succeed. This is a good starting point.
Amen 🙏🏻!
That’s right.
The same reason the machines bailed on creating utopia for us in the Matrix...
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