Posted on 06/29/2023 4:16:36 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp
The late Great Walter Williams makes it quite clear that he believed the South had a right to secede.
“Think states still have that right.”
We sure as hell talk about it in a positive way! It would be a hodge podge of states rather than a discrete geographic area. If people don’t have that right they are not a truly free people.
When New York was still debating whether to ratify the Constitution, some of them thought they could ratify it conditionally (depending on whether a Bill of Rights was added)--James Madison wrote a letter to a New Yorker saying that once you ratify, you can't secede. I think the first time South Carolina threatened to secede was about a week after Congress met for the first time in 1789.
William F. Buckley was good. I watched him a few times back in the day, but his arguments tended to be very intellectual.
Miss Mr. Williams.
Yeah, me too. He was the best. He was my favorite columnist for a very long time.
I guess my current favorite is Kurt Schlichter.
They did. They picked a morally poor reason. But they did.
I also think the other states had a right to say nope. If the south would have won they would have secured their right. But they didn’t.
Put it this way. The colonies had moral right on their side for the revolution, for many reasons. The south had no such moral reasons. They all insisted they’d never give up slavery, so thats what it boiled down to.
When did Walter William pass?
True. So secession is not unconstitutional either.
I’m sure Walter Williams has other reasons for believing the South had a right to secede, but he had only a little time, and so he started where he thought was best for his argument.
He wanted to back up his argument with words written in the treaty and words in some of the states ratification documents.
The country was founded years before the treaty. The federal government was created years before the ratification documents.
None of these ex post facto words have any relevance to the issue.
That is some interesting insight. It makes sense. They almost didn't. Massachusetts and Connecticut were talking about seceding in 1814 at the Hartford Convention.
When New York was still debating whether to ratify the Constitution, some of them thought they could ratify it conditionally (depending on whether a Bill of Rights was added)--James Madison wrote a letter to a New Yorker saying that once you ratify, you can't secede.
That's funny, because James Madison was one of the men who approved the ratification statement from Virginia which said you *COULD* secede. If he didn't agree, he should have said so at the time.
I think the first time South Carolina threatened to secede was about a week after Congress met for the first time in 1789.
My recollection of history is that the South wasn't all that big on joining the "revolution" until after Francis Marion made them hate the British.
Wow, people in Whatcom County WA are beginning to see our government as no longer representing us. Our local and state government, that is. There is no chance for us to secede from the state, though.
Our local store, Nagger’s is asking us to donate to DEI at the check out stand. Then, we go to Bellingham to shop and there are no grocery carts because they have all been stolen. They fill them up with groceries and walk out the doors d just walk away. There is nothing the store can do because it is against the law to stop shoplifters.
There is also nothing in the Constitution forbidding it. And why should there be? Everything to be said on the subject was said 11 years earlier when they signed the Declaration of Independence.
However, the Declaration of Independence legitimizes secession. It's all about secession.
Yup. The Declaration says people have a right to secede.
Since there is no provision in the U.S. Constitution for secession, there is nothing preventing it from occurring either. Once the southern states took up arms against the U.S, however, reconquest became a legitimate response.
It doesn’t have to be in the Constitution to be a right. There are 18 enumerated rights reserved for the federal government that it can override any state rights on that are related to the 18 enumerated powers.
Any powers not enumerated to the federal government belongs to the state. The Federal government has 18 enumerated rights and all other rights belongs to the state via the Tenth Amendment. Since not one of the enumerated powers of the federal government covers preventings states from leaving, a state has the right to leave.
The only thing the federal government can do, if a territory applies to join the Union, is that they can place conditions upon states entering. They can’t stop a state from leaving.
I'll accept the writings of a known, proven scholar over an internet wannabe any day......
Is Davis a traitor; or, Was secession a constitutional right previous to the war of 1861?
By Albert Taylor Bledsoe, free download or read at Archive.org
“I guess my current favorite is Kurt Schlichter.”
I second that!
So we have been continuously told by the people who profited from the war.
I also think the other states had a right to say nope.
Is this like Freedom of Speech, where other people can say "no" to your right to speak?
It seems to me that if something is a right, other people cannot say "no." If they can say "no", it isn't a right.
Yes, the strongest people can always impose their will on others, but if we are talking about rule by the strongest, let us speak no more of "rights."
Put it this way. The colonies had moral right on their side for the revolution, for many reasons.
Well that would depend on how you felt about perpetual allegiance to the king and loyalty to your country. I doubt the British agreed they had good moral reasons.
Oh, and all 13 states were slave states at the time.
The south had no such moral reasons.
Again, so we've been told by the people who profited from the War. I have gotten to the point where I no longer simply accept things I have been told by people with self interest in the matter.
They all insisted they’d never give up slavery, so thats what it boiled down to.
You think so? So why did the Northern controlled Congress vote to pass the Corwin Amendment which would guarantee permanent slavery in the United States?
Sounds like the government was totally fine with slavery forever.
2020 I believe. I was very sad at the time because he was really a good advocate for conservative ideas.
Me too. I could listen to Walter Williams more enjoyably than I did Rush. I would have loved to have had Profesor Walter Williams for a class when I went to college. I would have also loved to just be present at a table listening to a doscussion with him and Thomas Sowell. Two greats at once.
By a document that clearly said people have a right to secede. That is *HOW* the federal government was created. People seceded from the United Kingdom and created a government more to their liking.
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