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Husband sued for deceased wife’s unpaid medical bill
KSL ^
| MATT GEPHARDT AND CINDY ST. CLAIR
Posted on 03/29/2023 12:09:01 PM PDT by nickcarraway
It’s been a little over a year since Keith Zipprich lost his wife, Jo, to cancer.
Jo battled that cancer for many months, as bills stacked up for those many treatments.
Keith said Jo’s insurance covered most of the costs, and she was paying other bills up until the time of her death. But about a year after she died, Keith said he was surprised when he, himself, was slapped with a lawsuit from a debt collector trying to collect on one of Jo’s unpaid bills with Uintah Basin Healthcare.
“This bill came to me in forms of a lawsuit,” Keith said. “By the time this goes all through court, they’re talking to over $3,000.”
Jo died penny-less, Keith said. She had no estate. So now, the hospital is coming after him for bills that are not his.
When he called the collection agency listed on the lawsuit, he said he was told that he’s responsible to pay for his late-wife’s medical debt under Utah law.
That is, technically, true.
Utah law considers it a “benefit” to the “family unit” when someone goes to the doctor to try and get better. Thus, medical debt is a family expense, and a hospital is free to go after “both spouses or of either of them separately” for such unpaid debts.
Jason Iuliano, who teaches consumer law at the University of Utah, said the law is “absurd.”
Iuliano said the law’s origins go back hundreds of years, to a time before women could own property or enter into contracts.
“It came about as a way for women, in short, to basically buy goods and services and bill them to their husbands because they couldn’t actually enter into the contracts themselves,” he said. “It just doesn’t have a place in modern society.”
More and more states agree. At one point, what is on Utah’s books was the law of the land, but in recent years, 10 states have repealed the law, allowing surviving spouses to be sued personally for unpaid medical debt. A hospital or doctor could go after the estate, but if the estate has nothing, then the hospital cannot collect for the person who didn’t incur the debt, Iuliano said.
Get Gephardt asked Iuliano if there is anything a spouse in Utah can do to avoid getting slapped with the bills themselves if their spouse is terminally ill. The answer is grim.
“Divorce your spouse, or to move out of the house and no longer cohabitate with your spouse,” he said. “Obviously, both of those are terrible options.”
By email, Uintah Basin Healthcare Vice President Maigen Zobell defended its collection practices, writing, “Uintah Basin Healthcare follows standard legal collection practices and we are confident that our collection agencies do the same.”
Zobell wrote they are “still willing to work with Keith on this matter.”
He added, “It is standard practice that a deceased patient’s spouse is considered responsible for the patient’s remaining debt,” and pointed to previous reporting done by the KSL Investigators on the matter.
In a report from 2020, the KSL Investigators found that, while it is allowed legally, it is not standard practice for all doctors and hospitals. The University of Utah Hospital, for example, made it their policy a few years ago to not go after a surviving spouse for medical bills they incurred before death.
TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: hospitals; medical; utah
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To: RedElement
I get that but on the other hand, why is it that my spouse and I each have to meet our own separate deductibles? If he's responsible for me and I him, how come our insurance carrier gets to treat our “responsibility” as separate?
81
posted on
03/29/2023 5:28:32 PM PDT
by
liberalh8ter
(The only difference between flash mob 'urban yutes' and U.S. politicians is the hoodies.)
To: Gunslingr3
It seems to me that doesn’t put any money in the hospitals account to pay nursing salaries and other costs associated with providing care. Meh. Cost of doing business.
82
posted on
03/29/2023 9:15:57 PM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Meh. Cost of doing business... is born by the paying customers, or the business folds.
To: entropy12
My golfer friend gave his property to his daughter when he got cancer.If you have a great family, moving assets to trusts is smart in your 70's.
84
posted on
03/30/2023 5:55:34 AM PDT
by
1Old Pro
To: nickcarraway
Call the hospital and set up a payment plan.
$1 a month for the next 250 years.
85
posted on
03/30/2023 6:05:34 AM PDT
by
Eagles6
(Welcome to the Matrix . Orwell's "1984" was a warning, not an instruction manual.)
To: Gunslingr3
.. is born by the paying customers, or the business folds.And, yet, eleven states, including Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Vermont and Washington have outlawed the practice of suing a surviving spouse for medical debt incurred by their deceased spouse as it violates the Equal Protection clause.
See: Doctrine of Necessaries
Somehow, hospitals in these states stay in business without going after surviving spouses.
86
posted on
03/30/2023 6:40:30 AM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Yes, by charging people who didn’t receive the services higher rates to compensate for the deadbeats (pun intended).
There’s no free lunch, Keith just wants someone else to pay for the treatments his wife received.
To: Gunslingr3
Yes, by charging people who didn’t receive the services higher rates to compensate for the deadbeats (pun intended).So an operation or treatment costs more in Alabama than in California?
Care to cite a source for this assertion?
88
posted on
03/30/2023 7:18:38 AM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Defend your own strawman, after you look up the meaning of ceteris paribus.
To: Gunslingr3
Defend your own strawman, after you look up the meaning of ceteris paribus.That's what I thought.
FRegards,
90
posted on
03/30/2023 9:19:01 AM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Did you think a comparative of COLA between CA and AL underlined an erudite point regarding the inescapable fact deadbeats must be borne by those who pay?
To: Gunslingr3
Did you think a comparative of COLA between CA and AL underlined an erudite point regarding the inescapable fact deadbeats must be borne by those who pay?States that have outlawed suing surviving spouses for medical debt:
Alabama (AL)
Alaska (AK)
Arkansas (AR)
Florida (FL)
Georgia (GA)
Idaho (ID)
Maryland (MD)
Michigan (MI)
Mississippi (MS)
Vermont (VT)
Washington (WA)
Let's look at the figures as of 2020, shall we? (See: Average hospital expenses per inpatient day across 50 states)
Average hospital expenses per inpatient day across 50 states:
Alabama
- State/local government hospitals — $1,453
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,731
- For-profit hospitals — $1,561
Alaska
- State/local government hospitals — $1,160
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,353
- For-profit hospitals — $3,052
Arizona
- State/local government hospitals — $2,371
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,854
- For-profit hospitals — $2,220
Arkansas
- State/local government hospitals — $2,305
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,817
- For-profit hospitals — $1,830
California
- State/local government hospitals — $3,269
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,879
- For-profit hospitals — $2,392
Colorado
- State/local government hospitals — $2,486
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,365
- For-profit hospitals — $2,941
Connecticut
- State/local government hospitals — $4,160
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,802
- For-profit hospitals — N/A
Delaware
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,061
- For-profit hospitals — $1,062
District of Columbia
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,674
- For-profit hospitals — $ 2,548
Florida
- State/local government hospitals — $1,953
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,495
- For-profit hospitals — $1,867
Georgia
- State/local government hospitals — $822
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,061
- For-profit hospitals — $1,937
Hawaii
- State/local government hospitals — $1,619
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,851
- For-profit hospitals — N/A
Idaho
- State/local government hospitals — $1,930
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,819
- For-profit hospitals — $3,148
Illinois
- State/local government hospitals — $2,892
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,650
- For-profit hospitals — $2,023
Indiana
- State/local government hospitals — $1,798
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,827
- For-profit hospitals — $2,548
Iowa
- State/local government hospitals — $1,635
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,578
- For-profit hospitals — $1,571
Kansas
- State/local government hospitals — $1,757
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,983
- For-profit hospitals — $2,149
Kentucky
- State/local government hospitals — $2,237
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,915
- For-profit hospitals — $1,909
Louisiana
- State/local government hospitals — $1,962
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,020
- For-profit hospitals — $2,179
Maine
- State/local government hospitals — $1,541
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,688
- For-profit hospitals — $1,126
Maryland
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,821
- For-profit hospitals — $1,338
Massachusetts
- State/local government hospitals — $1,976
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,228
- For-profit hospitals — $1,967
Michigan
- State/local government hospitals — $1,216
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,463
- For-profit hospitals — $2,294
Minnesota
- State/local government hospitals — $1,560
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,535
- For-profit hospitals — N/A
Mississippi
- State/local government hospitals — $1,260
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,385
- For-profit hospitals — $1,772
Missouri
- State/local government hospitals — $1,721
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,558
- For-profit hospitals — $2,023
Montana
- State/local government hospitals — $600
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,567
- For-profit hospitals — $2,631
Nebraska
- State/local government hospitals — $1,137
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,244
- For-profit hospitals — $3,040
Nevada
- State/local government hospitals — $2,710
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,130
- For-profit hospitals — $1,799
New Hampshire
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,679
- For-profit hospitals — $2,121
New Jersey
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,879
- For-profit hospitals — $1,918
New Mexico
- State/local government hospitals — $3,001
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,001
- For-profit hospitals — $2,476
New York
- State/local government hospitals — $2,919
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,869
- For-profit hospitals — N/A
North Carolina
- State/local government hospitals — $2,112
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,334
- For-profit hospitals — $1,705
North Dakota
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,820
- For-profit hospitals — $5,326
Ohio
- State/local government hospitals — $2,914
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,842
- For-profit hospitals — $2,351
Oklahoma
- State/local government hospitals — $1,515
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,011
- For-profit hospitals — $2,290
Oregon
- State/local government hospitals — $3,845
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,380
- For-profit hospitals — $3,053
Pennsylvania
- State/local government hospitals — $820
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,380
- For-profit hospitals — $3,053
Rhode Island
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,857
- For-profit hospitals — $2,161
South Carolina
- State/local government hospitals — $2,481
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,049
- For-profit hospitals — $1,625
South Dakota
- State/local government hospitals — $496
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,550
- For-profit hospitals — $4,114
Tennessee
- State/local government hospitals — $1,709
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,345
- For-profit hospitals — $1,986
Texas
- State/local government hospitals — $3,112
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,750
- For-profit hospitals — $2,130
Utah
- State/local government hospitals — $3,002
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,053
- For-profit hospitals — $2,593
Vermont
- State/local government hospitals — N/A
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,633
- For-profit hospitals — N/A
Virginia
- State/local government hospitals — $3,496
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,943
- For-profit hospitals — $1,866
Washington
- State/local government hospitals — $3,514
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,608
- For-profit hospitals — $3,032
West Virginia
- State/local government hospitals — $1,082
- Nonprofit hospitals — $1,994
- For-profit hospitals — $1,261
Wisconsin
- State/local government hospitals — $3,072
- Nonprofit hospitals — $2,518
- For-profit hospitals — $2,830
Wyoming
- State/local government hospitals — $1,180
- Nonprofit hospitals — $3,499
- For-profit hospitals — $2,740
92
posted on
03/30/2023 3:47:23 PM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
All that time wasted on your strawman about COLA differences between AL and CA?
LOL. What a maroon.
Notice your reference to the law, not reality. Bastiat fingered deadbeats (like you?) ages ago:
The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.
To: babygene
You misunderstood my post. I may not have expressed it well.
“If they were illegals, it would cost them nothing. If they were life-time welfare collectors, it would have cost them nothing.”
Healthcare generally doesn’t cost illegals or those on welfare anything. They don’t get denied. They show up at the ER and get taken care of if they can pay or not. It just raises the cost for all the rest of us.
94
posted on
03/30/2023 9:26:24 PM PDT
by
boycott
To: Gunslingr3
Notice your reference to the law, not reality. Bastiat fingered deadbeats (like you?) ages ago:
95
posted on
03/30/2023 11:56:38 PM PDT
by
Ol' Dan Tucker
(For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
I notice you still can’t refute the underlying reality, those who don’t pay for what they consume must be paid for by others.
To: SPDSHDW
Forced insurance will do thatIf you have forced service (EMTALA), then you have to have forced insurance, because the unicorns have all quit.
97
posted on
03/31/2023 4:21:39 AM PDT
by
Jim Noble
(You have sat too long for any good you have been doing)
To: KC Burke; fwdude
I write orders for outpatient IV antibiotics multiple times a week. This involves insurance, home care companies, visiting nurses, pharmacies, labs, and sometimes transportation.
For years, I at least tried to figure costs out, but I have given up. Almost all parties to the transaction have “hold harmless” arrangements where “estimated cost” is meaningless. None will provide that information to doctors.
98
posted on
03/31/2023 4:29:38 AM PDT
by
Jim Noble
(You have sat too long for any good you have been doing)
To: j_guru
I wonder if an argument could be made, based upon the outcome that the treatment was unnecessary.Everybody dies. The mortality of Medicare beneficiaries is 100% (eventually).
99
posted on
03/31/2023 4:32:28 AM PDT
by
Jim Noble
(You have sat too long for any good you have been doing)
To: shotgun
I got the bill for $6,000 for a shot and a bed pan!And for a fully staffed and operational facility open on a Sunday evening, required by Federal law to diagnose and stabilize all who walk through the door.
When Congress passed EMTALA in 1986, they neglected to pass a funding source for what have amounted to trillions of dollars of free care.
The $6000 is your share of the system Congress created. These hospitals are not public utilities. The way they keep the lights on and maintain emergency services is spreading the cost over all who are paying bills.
Don't like it? Call your congressman.
This was done, and continues to be done, by the way, to make you demand nationalization. The Uniparty actually can't believe their programs since 1965 haven't already done this - but the good news is that the end of what we have now is very close.
100
posted on
03/31/2023 4:40:18 AM PDT
by
Jim Noble
(You have sat too long for any good you have been doing)
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