What's the Truth about . . . the Translation of Yam Suf?

Jewish Action ^ | Spring 2010 issue | Rabbi Dr. Ari Z. Zivotofsky

[SunkenCiv]

The rest of the Erythraean Sea keyword, sorted:

• Indian Ocean's Oldest Shipwreck Set for Excavation [06/26/2022]
• New inscriptions from Saudi Arabia and the extent of Roman rule along the Red Sea [Farasan Islands] [11/25/2021]
• Glassware found on Okinoshima island came from ancient Persia [05/28/2020]
• Mould for minting Roman coins found in Talkad [India] [05/30/2014]
• Indians first to ride monsoon winds [04/24/2011]
• South Indians in Roman Egypt? [04/07/2010]
• More evidence unearthed at ancient port of Muziris [03/19/2010]
• Sailor to recreate Phoenicians' epic African voyage [03/24/2008]
• Archaeologists Unearth Roman Era Artefacts In Kerala (India) [03/25/2007]
• Ancient Indian port linked to Roman Empire faces extinction(India) [08/22/2006]
• Search For India's Ancient City (Muziris - Roman) [06/11/2006]
• When In Vietnam, Build Boats As The Romans Do [04/21/2006]
• Scientists Discover Ancient Sea Wharf (Marine Silk Road) [12/30/2004]
• The Shipwreck at Assarca Island, Eritrea [10/17/2004]
• The Voyage around the Erythraean Sea [09/12/2004]
• Tamil Trade [09/11/2004]
• Who really discovered America? (Evidence that the Jews did!) [04/13/2004]
• So How Far Did The Phoenicians Really Go In The Region? [02/23/2004]
• Who Really Discovered America? [07/14/2002]
• visit the keyword

[SunkenCiv]

The Histories
by Herodotus
tr by George Rawlinson
Book IV -- Melpomene

As for Libya, we know it to be washed on all sides by the sea, except where it is attached to Asia. This discovery was first made by Necos, the Egyptian king, who on desisting from the canal which he had begun between the Nile and the Arabian gulf, sent to sea a number of ships manned by Phoenicians, with orders to make for the Pillars of Hercules, and return to Egypt through them, and by the Mediterranean. The Phoenicians took their departure from Egypt by way of the Erythraean sea, and so sailed into the southern ocean. When autumn came, they went ashore, wherever they might happen to be, and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut. Having reaped it, they again set sail; and thus it came to pass that two whole years went by, and it was not till the third year that they doubled the Pillars of Hercules, and made good their voyage home. On their return, they declared -- I for my part do not believe them, but perhaps others may -- that in sailing round Libya they had the sun upon their right hand. In this way was the extent of Libya first discovered.

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'Civ notes:

• Libya was the Greek name for all of Africa
• Elsewhere in Herodotus he makes it clear that the Red Sea including the Gulfs of Suez and Aqaba, along with the Persian Gulf, were the Erythraean Sea, IOW, the term refers to the Indian Ocean and its 'fingers' into the continents

[SunkenCiv]

Dr. V notes that the Israelites left Egypt in the Exodus after the sun set on the 13th of the month, which made it the 14th of the month. The 13th happened to be a Friday.

One of *those* topics.

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[SunkenCiv]

The other GGG topics added since the previous digest ping, chrono sort:

• Paul Johnson, Prolific Historian Prized by Conservatives, Dies at 94 [01/12/2023]
• Study suggests smallpox originated 2,000 years earlier than thought [01/11/2023]
• Saudi Arabia discovers 6th-century rock inscriptions of Babylonian king in Hail [01/11/2023]
• The Earliest Evidence of Christianity in Arabia? [01/11/2023]
• Giant Viking hall, possibly connected to Harald Bluetooth, unearthed in Denmark [01/11/2023]
• Excavation Site of Pool of Siloam Where Jesus Cured a Blind Man to Open to Public [01/10/2023]
• MIT, Harvard, Italian, and Swiss scientists re-discover why Roman concrete structures last millennia while modern concrete doesn't [01/10/2023]
• Octavian, Mark Antony, and Cleopatra at the Battle of Actium [01/09/2023]
• Study suggests Mayas utilized market-based economics [01/08/2023]
• Modern tools reveal the brutality of death by multiple sword blows 700 years ago [01/08/2023]
• Remains of ancient, indigenous dogs found at Jamestown, as well as proof people ate them [01/08/2023]
• Face of 19th-Century 'Connecticut Vampire' Reconstructed [01/08/2023]
• Ruins on Mount Tlaloc Are an Ancient Observatory [01/08/2023]
• Mass production of stone bladelets shows cultural shift in Paleolithic Levant [01/08/2023]
• Archaeologists Reconstruct Huge Early Christian Cathedral in Northern Israel [01/08/2023]
• DNA from archaeological remains shows that immigration to Scandinavia was exceptional during the Viking period [01/08/2023]
• How a scientific consensus can destroy good science [01/06/2023]
• Learning from Our History: Our Current House Fight Doesn't Hold a Candle to the 1855-56 Speaker Vote [01/06/2023]
• Borneo skeleton, 31,000 years old, thought to be oldest example of amputation [09/08/2022]

[DoodleBob]

triskaidekaphobia

noun

tris·​kai·​deka·​pho·​bia ˌtri-ˌskī-ˌde-kə-ˈfō-bē-ə

: fear of the number 13

[Romulus]

Wait... the Bible is in other languages besides English?

[SunkenCiv]

HERESY! Oh, sorry.

[SunkenCiv]

Yup. There's also Trisquitdeckaphobia, the fear of eating those crackers on a cruise ship buffet.

[Bethaneidh]

Interesting argument. I remember hearing it discussed years ago. Then someone pointed out, “All the better miracle that Pharoah’s army drowned in two inches of water.”

[DoodleBob]

[silent majority rising]

Passover is in the middle of the month (Nisan 14), which means that Moses waited until there was a full moon. Which would have made it much easier to travel at night.

[Varda]

It's an interesting topic. I was taught that it was “Red Sea” and that the meaning of the name is unknown to modern research. There are apparently a number of ancient sources calling it the “Red Sea”.

“The notion that the Yam Suf is the modern-day Red Sea predates any English translation of the Bible by well over a thousand years. In fact, it seems that until the late eighteenth century no one questioned the translation and identification of Yam Suf with the Red Sea. 1”

But of course current Bible scholars like to make meanings of words current with modern culture so we have this idea that all those olden people didn't know what they were talking about.

[BradyLS]

LOL! That’s a good one!

[chajin]

Passover is in the middle of the month (Nisan 14)

the later version, the earlier name of the month was Datsan

which means that Moses waited until there was a full moon.

This assumes that Moses, and not the One who was going to perform the miraculous emancipation, chose the date.

[SunkenCiv]

He didn’t pick the time to go. :^)

[SunkenCiv]

;^)

[SunkenCiv]

LOL! Took me a minute...

[Monkey Face]

That’s funny! And I’m going to remember it for the next time we study the Old Testament in Sunday School! I wonder how many people have even thought of that?

Thanks!

‘Face

;o]

[SunkenCiv]

“the earlier name of the month was Datsan”

Shows they waited far too long, earlier they could have just piled in their small pickups and driven out.

[SunkenCiv]

Yuppers. The red/reed equation never made any sense to me, because the original language wasn't English, and (as the Rabbi notes) the Greek and Latin versions both have it as Red Sea. :^)