The USA just gave Russia an excuse to seize all of Ukraine

https://abrahamstein.substack.com ^ | Apr 25, 2022 | Abraham Stein

[daniel1212]

"“We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine,”"

Which is good, but Austin's woklitary is not.

"Austin’s words can be read as a direct admission of war between the United States and Russia,"

Nothing new. Korea, Vietnam, now China.

"it is obvious there will be no peace in the region unless the Kremlin controls all of Ukraine. "

Indeed: peace under a lustful invader/oppressor (who would ban FR as he outlaws evangelicals being evangelical) who demands submission of the West in order for have lasting peace.

[Dogbert41]

👍👍👍

[freeandfreezing]

@JulianRoepcke says:

"Detonation hoses (for demining) against residential buildings - the Russian war crimes in Ukraine are limitless"

"Russian forces claim to have shot down "another" Byraktar TB-2 "when it tried to enter Russia". Could be re-used images from one of the incidents over the past days though."

"Ukrainian forces liberated Russka Losova, north of Kharkiv city, according to official information."

"The Ukrainian army liberated Kutuzivka near Kharkiv city shortly ago."

And you forgot to include what your source said just after his post "Today is another grim day for Ukraine.."

"Seeing that Russian propagandists are using this tweet to claim, "even Germans know, Ukraine will lose". Actually, nope. Ukraine will win this war. These are the last (maybe 30) days of Russian advances. The Russian army will be defeated inside Ukraine, if Kyiv keeps fighting."

Why did you only quote the first half of Mr. Roepcke's tweets? Why didn't you share his complete idea, that Russia would be defeated?

[freeandfreezing]

Yes Jane, anyone who posts propaganda talking points that five minutes of research show to be false deserved to get called out for it.

Why do people keep posting that exact same sentence here on FR? Do they somehow all imagine the same sentence and then post it? Or are they trying to repeat a talking point?

Use your brain, don't be fooled by propaganda.

[caww]

Just cast them off like rubbish when they start their crap. They get enjoyment out of getting people to respond when they call everyone who doesn’t agree with them a Putin Propagandist or half a dozen other names.....generally just one line wonders with nothing to offer.

[freeandfreezing]

Oh, and Jane how do you know where some other poster is posting from?

[Jane Long]

Looks like YOU’RE the one being ‘fooled by propaganda’.

[Jane Long]

How do we know where YOU are posting from, posterior poster?

[caww]

It’s advantageous if people stop posting twitter posts and find better resources.

[freeandfreezing]

Looks like YOU’RE the one being ‘fooled by propaganda’.

So show me a link to real data that shows I am wrong.

[daniel1212]

"How funny that the USA tells Russia that a NATO-member Ukraine on their border would not be a threat to them yet if Russia has military in Venezuela the USA considers that a red line:"

Sounds like the reasons of liberals, as it is utterly ignores that Venezuela has no need of Russian aid to protect it from the US - which country saved them from speaking German or Russian - while the reason for NATO is that Russia has been a military threat to former countries it once ruled, and those it would if it could. But maybe you want to defend Stalin and successors.

NATO countries like the map they have now better than an older one.

https://countrymapss.blogspot.com/2014/01/nato-countries-map-1949.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union

Russia has a history of repeated invasions of other countries as well as military assistance against the West, and not in order to liberate and rebuild them as with the US. Thus NATO is warranted, and Putin - who longs for Soviet glory - has simply provided more evidence as to why, while insolently playing victim.

Countries invaded [including interventions or military assistance like Vietnam] by Soviet Russia, the Soviet Union, and the Russian Federation

Estonia 1917

Latvia 1918

Lithuania 1918

Finland 1918

Poland 1918

Belarus 1918

Ukraine 1918

Georgia 1920

Azerbaijan 1920

Armenia 1920

Moldova 1918

Central Asia 1918

Mongolia 1921

Georgia 1924

Estonia 1924

Afghanistan 1929

China 1929

Japan 1938

Poland 1939

Finland 1939

Estonia 1940

Latvia 1940

Lithuania 1940

Romania 1940

Iran 1942 (Joint Soviet-British invasion)

Ukraine and Belarus 1944

Bulgaria 1944

Hungary 1944

Yugoslavia 1944

Albania 1944

Poland 1944

The Baltic States 1944

Germany 1944 [with the West]

Tuva 1944

Japan 1945

China 1945

Korea 1950

East Germany 1953

Hungary 1956

Vietnam 1960

Czechoslovakia 1968

China 1969

Israel 1969

Ethiopia 1974

Angola 1975

Afghanistan 1979 Georgia 1989

Baltic States 1990

Georgia 1991

Azerbaijan 1991

Moldova 1992

Tajikistan 1992 Northern Caucasus 1992 [Chechnya, etc.]

War of Dagestan 1999 Second Chechen War 1999–2009

Georgia 2008

Insurgency in the North Caucasus 2009–2017

Ukraine 2014

Syria 2015

Central African Republic Civil War 2018–present

Ukraine 2022

Sources: https://www.numbers-stations.com/articles/soviet-and-russian-invasions-since-1917/; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

[Jane Long]

You’re the one who made the claim. YOU show the link, showing that poster is wrong. And, not DS provided links.

See? That’s how this works. You make a drive by claim...YOU post a link to back it up.

Then....we go from there.

You jumped right in, with location insults, to that poster.

[freeandfreezing]

It’s advantageous if people stop posting twitter posts and find better resources.

Actually you are incorrect. Some of the best evidence of what is actually happening appears first on Twitter or Telegram. Just about all of the opinions and news you are reading appears first on Twitter or Telegram. That includes images taken by fighters on both sides, which show exactly what happened at particular places at particular moments.

Sometimes people try to create fake images, like the drone wreckage that was apparently moved and used to try to suggest that two TB2 drones had been shot down, so discernment is important, but more can be learned from actual reports than the opinions of people trying to sway public opinion.

[caww]

Show her real data to show that your right.

[caww]

Wrong ...there’s no way to confirm those and rare anyone does so. It’s easy to find a twitter poster who states and shows what you want supported. You cannot confirm their photos either....as we’ve seen debunked many times.

So no twitter isn’t a reliable source - it only gives people a place to start to research further and few if ever go any further.

[Namyak]

That is precisely what I don’t understand in the current debate: those that side whole-heartily with Ukraine seem to completely ignore the Russian side of the conflict. They don’t understand Russia’s motivation, so they think that Russia is simply acting irrationally. Russia is not acting irrationally, they are acting precisely how a rational world or regional power would act when pressed.

As I’ve said before, we chose this fight when we overthrew the legitimately-elected government of Ukraine back in 2014. We wanted this, we thought we could win this. Perhaps we can, but right now I don’t see the powers that being up to challenge.

[daniel1212]

" Yeah, I saw that ‘70 years Ukraine was ruled by the Soviet Union and the region was at virtual peace’ line and the thing that ran to my mind was “did they have a choice?” "

Indeed. East Germany was "at virtual peace" also, with a Wall for security to protect them from freedom. It is grievous to see so many shills for Putin propaganda, who somehow see invader Putin the victim. Not Christians:

Across all three waves of ISSP data, no more than about one-in-ten Russians said they attend religious services at least once a month. And it is Putin who boasts of his power to destroy America, and helps its enemies, including seeking an alliance with China. Liberals oppose him due to his anti-LGBTQ stance and favoring Trump and being a threat to their dominance, while traditional conservatives - at least non-RO Christians who expressing of faith Putin outlawed - overall oppose Putin due to him being the actual threat to our faith and freedoms.

Putin may be an instrument of Divine chastisement of America, and which should commend Putin's opposition to the LGBTQ agenda, but he is the dictator of corrupt government and which persecutes the most conservative Christians, evangelicals, even outlawing any evangelism by them at all.

Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church | News ...

Christians are Severely Persecuted in Putin's Russia – But That Could ...

Christian Persecution Increasing in Russia - Christian News Headlines

Report: Non-Orthodox Christians Face 'Strong Discrimination' in Russia

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Moscow church destroyed in sign of new Russian repression Posted on Sep 26, 2012 | by Jill Nelson

MOSCOW (BP) -- It was in the early hours of the morning on Sept. 6 when Pastor Vasili Romanyuk's phone rang. A group of men backed by local police were demolishing his Holy Trinity Pentecostal Church, housed in a three-story building nestled in a Moscow suburb. As word spread, congregants arrived at the scene hoping to save the building, but their efforts were futile. By dawn the church was in ruins and some of its most valuable contents were missing.

An isolated incident? A misunderstanding? Analysts watching the current climate in the former Cold War country don't think so: "This destruction of the church is about as concrete of evidence as you can get that something very bad and very troubling is taking place," said Katrina Lantos Swett, chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. "This could not have happened without the backing, support, and implicit blessing of the police."

The incident is just one sign of deteriorating freedoms in Russia, and behind the scenes a cozy relationship between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church has raised more than a few eyebrows. As President Vladimir Putin digs into his third term, a number of Kremlin crackdowns involving vague interpretations of the country's extremism law and other human-rights abuses are troubling signs that the country has slipped into a familiar, repressive era.

"When you have unknown people backed by the police coming out at midnight to begin tearing down a church, you know something doesn't smell right," Lantos Swett said.

Officials evicted Holy Trinity Church from its original building in 1995 and relocated the church to the eastern Moscow suburb. The congregation used its own funds to construct a new building and repeatedly battled officials over permits. The church demolition and its history reflect an emerging pattern: Authorities confiscate land from non-favored religious communities and force the congregation to relocate to a remote suburb, the religious leaders apply for permits that are subsequently denied, and officials confiscate (once again) or demolish the relocated congregation, citing lack of proper documentation.

Pastor Romanyuk and a small group of the church's 550 congregants arrived on site around 3:30 a.m. as about 45 men claiming to be civil volunteers blocked them from the building and threw stones. "When I arrived, I just burst into tears," 25-year-old Natalya Cherevichinik told The Moscow Times as she surveyed the destruction. "I couldn't believe that something that had been built over several years could be destroyed in a few hours."

Russian Evangelicals Leery of Orthodox Church, Friday, December 30, 2011:

class="adjusted">MOSCOW, Russia -- For decades, the Russian Orthodox Church was persecuted under the Soviet Union's Communist Party.

Since the early 1990s, the church has grown in size and influence as its relationship with the Russian government has improved significantly.

However, that cozy relationship worries the country's evangelicals.

Threats Against Evangelicals

For eight years, Yuri Sipko ran one of the largest Baptist organizations in Russia. Now, 20 years after the fall of Communism, he worries about the growing threats against the country's evangelical movement.

"The collapse of Communism was supposed to usher in an era of greater religious freedom, but I'm concerned we are moving in the wrong direction," Sipko said.

What makes the Russian evangelicals very concerned is an emerging relationship between the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church.

"For example, the government recently introduced religious classes based on the principals of the Orthodox Church in public schools," Sipko said.

"Then late last year, the Russian president announced an initiative to appoint Orthodox chaplains to all army units," he said. "Our constitution clearly states no religion can be the state religion."

Russia Church-State Relations

Russia watchers credit two men, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev, for elevating the church's prominence. The state media has also played a key role, often showing the leaders attending church services.

Sergey Ryakhovski knows both men well. As head of Russia's Pentecostal Union, he meets regularly with top government and Orthodox Church leaders.

Ryakhovski worries that the Orthodox Church's influence is coming at the expense of religious freedom, especially for minority groups such as Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists.

"There are so many laws and by-laws that regulate religious life in Russia," Ryakhovski said. "For example, evangelical Christians just can't go out and buy a church building or buy a piece of land to build a church."

"Plus, criticizing or challenging the Orthodox Church is not a task for all," he added.

Orthodox Church Revival

The Russian Orthodox Church on the other hand has had it easy in recent times after decades of state persecution.

Church buildings that were destroyed during the Soviet era have been rebuilt with Russian taxpayer money. In the past 20 years, the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars restoring some 23,000 churches.

Most Russians say they belong to the Orthodox Church. Yet CBN News found mixed reactions on the streets of Moscow to the growing bond between church and state

At Expense of All Others, Putin Picks a Church

By CLIFFORD J. LEVY Published: April 24, 2008

STARY OSKOL, Russia —

It was not long after a Methodist church put down roots here that the troubles began.

First came visits from agents of the F.S.B., a successor to the K.G.B., who evidently saw a threat in a few dozen searching souls who liked to huddle in cramped apartments to read the Bible and, perhaps, drink a little tea. Local officials then labeled the church a “sect.” Finally, last month, they shut it down.

There was a time after the fall of Communism when small Protestant congregations blossomed here in southwestern Russia, when a church was almost as easy to set up as a general store. Today, this industrial region has become emblematic of the suppression of religious freedom under President Vladimir V. Putin.

Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.

Russia's De-Facto State Religion : Persecution : http://www ... www.persecution.org/?p=9350&upm...‎ International Christian Co... Putin frequently appears with the Orthodox head, Patriarch Aleksei II, ... Baptists, evangelicals, Pentecostals and many others who cut Christ's robes like bandits, ...

Government Returning Land to Religious Organizations to Favor Orthodox Tuesday, March 3rd, 2009: An ambitious draft law on the transfer of property of religious significance to religious organisations may reignite a process begun in 1993.

Pentecostal Seminary Targeted for Liquidation

Pentecostal Church Forced to Meet Outside in Moscow Winter

Russia: Governor Orders Church Land Grab

Council of Religious Experts threatens religious freedom

A new Inquisition ?

Russia “You have the law, we have orders ”

[Cathi]

I think it is painful to come to the realization that your government (and media) have been lying to you about almost everything. But, anyone who comes to this subject with an objective mind quickly finds out how misled we have been.

Russia is not the bad guy...WE ARE!

We are responsible for this unnecessary war and we are going to reap the whirlwind from it...:-(

[robowombat]

At least unti after the mid term elections. The cranking up the ‘remember the Maine’ sort of bloody shirt waving has not been seen since 1917. Surely the administration must in part be hoping the Ukraine can provide distraction from explosive inflation and fuel prices and mute the losses in November. If the Dems can keep control of one house their short term goals will be achieved. While the expansion of NATO will go on Washington may shift towards substantive negotiations in the Ukraine and push for at least a limited ceasefire. The big question is how much the war will escalate during the May to September campaigning season. A real deterioration in Kiev’s position in the Donbass and heavy air and missile strikes is going to make an attempt at some sort of no fly zone difficult for Washington to avoid. The pattern in wars is towards escalating upwards until finding some equilibrium, but at a much higher level.

[Poison Pill]

My sources tell me that the Russians will leave a Ukrainian rump state for the EU to take care.

You need better sources.