Posted on 03/07/2022 10:12:46 AM PST by impimp
Found variants of this on two sources on the internet and it is also what seems reasonable:
“Russia claims it will stop the war immediately if Ukraine agrees to:
- cease military action - change constitution to enshrine neutrality - recognize Crimea as Russian territory - recognize the Russian-controlled areas of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states”
So what is Ukraine’s problem? Accept the reasonable terms and move on. Reject them and face war.
As long as America is sanctioning and demonizing Russia then we are weakening the dollar’s position as the global reserve currency. I want us to be friends with Russia and I want them to be our trading partner. Demonization of Russia does not serve America’s interest.
“Russia claims it will stop the war immediately if Ukraine agrees to:
- cease military action - change constitution to enshrine neutrality - recognize Crimea as Russian territory - recognize the Russian-controlled areas of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states”
So what is Ukraine’s problem? Accept the reasonable terms and move on. Reject them and face war.
As long as America is sanctioning and demonizing Russia then we are weakening the dollar’s position as the global reserve currency. I want us to be friends with Russia and I want them to be our trading partner. Demonization of Russia does not serve America’s interest.
What’s your problem?
Why you come here and act as some agent for Russia?
IF you have to immediately call someone an “agent for Russia” - you’ve already lost the argument.
Why not a status quo ante bellum?
That would be equally “reasonable”
Demonization of Russia serves the interests of the New World Order and that is who is running the USA.
Before the invasion I noted that Putin had a legitimate concern about the expansion of NATO. But the terms you outline are not reasonable. They give Putin everything he wants, and so reward his aggression. In a way, it would be like the Munich agreement of 1938.
So what terms would be reasonable? That’s a tough question to answer. This war must stop before it spirals out of control. But of course Putin will not call a halt to things just because we want him to.
How about status quo ante Agreement?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
The Ukes honored it, Russians didn’t. And we got Putinist pantywaist appeasers pushing for peace as a result.
There is much more going on here than we all think on FR.
This is not about Ukraine, Russia, the EU or the USA.
I’m not sure exactly yet but I am for sure not taking advice from the UN, the EU, the State Dept or the Russian leadership.
My friends inside Russia tell me this is all about OIL.
Now is not the time to accuse fellow FR members of working for Russia.
It’s partly about oil. Russia gets 60% of its revenues from oil exports. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia.
In 2012 massive oil and gas reserves were found in Crimea. Crimea signed a $10 billion exploration contracts with Shell and Chevron to develop the new found oil and gas fields. These oil and gas products would compete in Europe with Russia’s oil and gas, reducing Russia’s oil revenues, which we recall amount to 60% of their total GDP. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, cancelling the contracts with Shell and Chevron.
But Ukraine still had massive reserves in, you guessed it, Donetsk and Luhansk, and other areas East of the Dnieper River. In 2019, Energy Secretary Rick Perry visited Ukraine, and soon after Ukraine awarded exploration contracts to a consortium of U.S. oil companies. Again, these oil reserves would compete in Europe with Russian oil, so Putin is invading Ukraine to shut down this latest attempt to extract Ukrainian oil and sell it in competition with Russian oil.
This explanation makes more sense to me than the “Putin feels threatened by NATO expansion” excuses for the invasion.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4044221/posts?page=1#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CmdSzVFSKc
I think this is a troll to some degree. The Russians won't give up their gains on Mariupol. Their position will consolidate, and then they will take the position that we offered this but that is offer is withdrawn. Our offer now to take (whatever they control at the time) is reasonable. You can accept peace now, or lose more territory and accept peace later.
We wouldn’t be having this problem if those dastardly Ukrainians hadn’t invaded Russia.
Oh, wait...
A stalemate would bleed Putin. Can Ukraine rearm from the allies before being crushed?
On the other hand, if Putincan beat Ukraine over the next few weeks or months, then can he do it without laying the country and population to waste? Would there be an existing resistance that would bleed him dry?
These are the factors both parties need to consider.
Ukraine doesn’t have to do anything.
The West: “Hey Russia we just kicked you out of the international financial system. Now pay your GD debt.”
The Russians: “Do you have an international clearing house where those payments can be made?”
The West: “Uh...Uh...We will get back to later when General Zelensky is done playing Braveheart.”
I want us to be friends with Germany and I want them to be our trading partner. Demonization of Hitler does not serve America’s interest - 1938 version.
UK is discussing sanctions. Considering sanctions on countries who failed to denounce Russia. Concerned with hostile disinformation.
NATO is happy to sacrifice Ukraine, as long as they extract maximum chaos and pain to Russia for it. What they really want is Germany chained tightly to the NATO pole, and control of energy supplies into the EU.
The Russians don’t have Mariupol after bombing it consistently for almost 2 weeks. And Mariupol people don’t want to be part of Russia. That’s why they haven’t surrendered despite the massive destruction caused by Russia.
i agree very much about mariupol. ethnically russian areas, essentially, a broader eastern Ukraine, would be a reasonable ask by Putin.
One of Russia’s prime reasons for annexing Crimea and invading Ukraine was to control Ukraine’s oil, gas, and mineral reserves so that it cannot arise as an economic competitor. If Joe Biden and the West had clean hands, they could have publicized this and shown Putin as basically an armed robber taking everything its neighbor had, leaving it an impoverished backwater with no future.
I’m all for negotiating something reasonable, but Putin cannot be rewarded for using aggression to seize everything he wanted from the start. He’ll only do it again and again.
Russia has completely exposed its military to air destruction. Ukraine gets the airplanes they need they’ll be no more Russian army to worry about and Ukraine can reunite.
Putin is on the way out.
The Russian stooge that posted this is likely a Russian troll farmer.
Putin is toast. He won’t be in power much longer and he’ll be tried as a war criminal.
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