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VANITY: "Define your terms" - Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Communism, Nazism
Vanity ^ | 01-22-2021 | Vanity

Posted on 01/22/2021 6:31:03 AM PST by OKSooner

Open discussion for the purpose of defining of these terms, especially in the classical and modern usage.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: communism; fascism; marxism; nazism; socialism
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To: OKSooner

I hope some of the scholars here make some contributions. I’d like to see some serious responses.

As I understand it, all these began with Marxism, Karl Marx’s theory/philosophy that people would identify with others who did what they did and come together to overthrow ‘the ruling class’. Or to put it more plainly, he believed that Polish plumbers would have feelings of solidarity with French and Italian plumbers rather than with Polish pilots and architects. This turned out to be false. It turns out that people do love their own languages, their histories, their cultures, and his ‘vision’ never came to fruition.

Hitler founded the National Socialist Party, with emphasis on the ‘national’ bit. His fight with the Communists was that they didn’t share the national notion. Hence his desire to eliminate the Communists.

Fascism is a little different. Fascia is the Italian word for sheaf. It Italy, the Communist Party is symbolized by a sheaf of wheat to indicate that you might break a single stalk of wheat, but you cannot break a sheaf of it. Likewise paper. You can tear a sheet, but not a sheaf of papers. Pascism holds that everything must come under the control of the State. We had a demonstration of this when 0bama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2017 and March 25-30, he invited GM CEO Rick Wagoner to the WH and had him step down - under duress. Causing duress is vitally important to fascists. In a fascist model, the gov’t. benevolently permits free enterprise, but it determines who the players will be - who’ll be the customers, what they will pay, etc.. This is what we had with 0bamacare. Insurance cos. were still in business, but they were told who the customers would be (everyone) and what the ins. cos. were permitted to charge.

I hope others chime in and help clarify my thoughts. I thank them in advance.


21 posted on 01/22/2021 6:48:59 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal (I believe it! He's alive! Sweet Jesus!)
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To: Spirit of Liberty

Spot on.


22 posted on 01/22/2021 6:48:59 AM PST by HighSierra5
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To: OKSooner

Marxist: Follows teachings of Marx/Engels
Socialist: Follows teachings of Marx/Engels
Communist: Follows teachings of Marx/Engels
Fascist: Anything the left disagrees with
Nazi: Anything the left disagrees with


23 posted on 01/22/2021 6:49:09 AM PST by Personal Responsibility (If we disarmed democrats gun violence would decrease by 90%.)
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To: OKSooner

Socialism: Belief that the answer to society is with a centralized government making the decisions to benefit all. The Government has sole control of all products and property.
Marxism: A method of Socialism that has been tried but actually never achieved, purporting to divide labor, responsibility, and equity evenly.
Communism: What Marxism in practice leads to. Totalitarian and oppressive government which is completely political in the distribution of labor, responsibility and equity.

Fascism: Where Corporation and Government work closely together for the benefit of both, but not necessarily the people. Corruption at the level of Government and Corporations leads to atrocities and inequity.
Nazism: A working example of Fascism.
American Socialist Democratic Party: A current form of New Facism wherein large corporations with global interest and corrupted politicians subvert the people for their own benefit and rob the treasury.


24 posted on 01/22/2021 6:49:11 AM PST by Pete Dovgan
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To: FormerLib

If he had been a fascist, CNN would not exist.

If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism.
Ronald Wilson Reagan


25 posted on 01/22/2021 6:51:32 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal (I believe it! He's alive! Sweet Jesus!)
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To: Spirit of Liberty
I never studied or read up on Marxism or Marx really. From what I gather it was a movement that was supposed to take the "means of production" or the results of production away from capitalist robber barons and give it to the people. Unfortunately, it seems, "the people" always seems to end up being a collectivist concept, which usually results in individuals not owning the results of their production, everyone else does.

Socialism is collectivism lite. It hides the confiscation of the results of production in taxation. Taxation is not a concept new to marxism though. So to me, Socialism is really more like a hybrid of feudalism and collectivism. You still end up with a ruling class, but they are the bureaucracy.

Fascism in it's current colloquial meaning is really just akin to hardcore totalitarianism or authoritarianism, but I can't honestly say that I know what the economic premise is. I assume it to be heavily confiscatory though.

Communism is marxism but it takes "the people" to another level. There is no real private property. It all belongs to the state, to be divied up for the good of "the people", but ever time it's tried, the division of the results of production is never equal, with the administrating class, once again, benefiting the more.

Nazism is very complex. Economically it seems to have facets of socialism and fascism, but there was an entire ethos/mythos (aryan, nordic/teutonic myth, & occultism) which made it bizarre in that many people were not just oppressed but bought into it emotionally.

Yes, to me, the common thread is that these all relied heavily on authoritarian rule, either by design, or by necessity.
26 posted on 01/22/2021 6:52:09 AM PST by z3n
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To: SMARTY

And blood suckers i.e. ticks,vampires,fleas,leeches etc etc.


27 posted on 01/22/2021 6:52:15 AM PST by HighSierra5
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To: definitelynotaliberal

But Hitler really didn’t care for German culture, especially the Prussians, which he despised. He wanted to create a new German Culture, in line with his twisted beliefs.

Which is basically what our modern-day Fascists in this country want to do. Create a new culture in this country, and force everyone to comply with it.


28 posted on 01/22/2021 6:52:27 AM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: SMARTY

Pick one, you are screwed.

In each of those, the state is primary.


29 posted on 01/22/2021 6:55:16 AM PST by joshua c (Jan 20th is Dump Day. Dump them all. Twitter, Facebook, Google, Amazon, cable tv etc)
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To: OKSooner

According to Joshua Muravchik in HEAVEN ON EARTH: THE RISE AND FALL OF SOCIALISM -

Communism is international socialism - all nations must be united into one before realized - ie. globalism

Fascism is national socialism - it can be realized within one nation and defined by that nationality even before others join - ie. Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy

To the communists, fascism is a perverse heresy. Since WW2 they have tried to tar and feather it by calling it extreme right wing. However, it is a form of leftism that denies the international character of communism.


30 posted on 01/22/2021 6:55:31 AM PST by Madam Theophilus
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To: OKSooner

It all means a boot on my neck.


31 posted on 01/22/2021 6:55:57 AM PST by Slyfox (Not my circus, not my monkeys )
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To: OKSooner

Pay no mind to Leftist definitions of forms of government. They say a lot of things that are simply not true. Keep it simple.

Totalitarianism in all forms is Evil!

Progressive
Socialist
Marxist #BLM
Fascist #Nazi’s (Erdogan’s Turkey)
Communist #Antifa
Dictator #ComDem_Covid19_Dictators
Islamist
Bureaucrap #the_Swamp

All Evil. All Fail.

Freedom Works.

It’s TIME to DownSize DC!


32 posted on 01/22/2021 6:57:45 AM PST by Texas Fossil ((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
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To: kosciusko51

Shades? Bingo


33 posted on 01/22/2021 6:58:04 AM PST by Texas Fossil ((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
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To: OKSooner

Define democracy apparently it means something different to democrats


34 posted on 01/22/2021 6:59:16 AM PST by mel (There are only 2 races decent and undecent people )
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To: OKSooner

The only professional journalist to become the leader of a nation, Mussolini, defined Fascism quite nicely and IMHO if you invent a word and implement the concept behind it, no one else gets to change your definition. Even though, of course, like any politician in the real world Benito had to change the practical definition somewhat.

Fascism is one-party control of the state combined with (mostly, supposedly) free markets. Harnessing Capitalism but without all the messy partisan politics. Nationalism is also a component, but the important one is using the force of markets but no competing political parties.

Fascism works quite well. Hitler’s Germany was initially Fascist and that is what helped pump up their economy before they abandoned it in favor of Nazism which is entirely different (Nazism is a racial movement, quite willing to go as socialist as necessary to work towards racial purity, economics being secondary).

Anyone mixing the two up being obviously too much of an ignoramus to take seriously about anything else.

Ignorant idiots on both right and left often use these terms to mean “Something I don’t like”, and should be ignored and reviled. Each has precise, and very different definitions to anyone who has ever cracked open a book on politics.


35 posted on 01/22/2021 6:59:27 AM PST by RedStateRocker ("Never miss a good chance to Shut Up" - Will Rogers)
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collectivism


36 posted on 01/22/2021 7:00:04 AM PST by bankwalker (groupthink kills ...)
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To: mel

The problem with Democracy is that where it first evolved, and the only place it’s actually worked, not every warm body voted. In the Greek city-states, the property-owning free males voted, not everyone with a pulse. Democracy might work in this technological age, but only if we limited voting to those who qualify, and of course the criteria would be so highly contentious as to make this impossible.


37 posted on 01/22/2021 7:02:16 AM PST by RedStateRocker ("Never miss a good chance to Shut Up" - Will Rogers)
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To: OKSooner
Each is government control with no personal freedoms.

They will start with gun registration.

They will employ Big Tech to learn who the gun owners are.

Your Visa Card records will be scrubbed to see where you have made purchases.

Your e-mail will be scrubbed to see who sends you ads.

Avoiding social media doesn't make you safe.

38 posted on 01/22/2021 7:02:50 AM PST by G Larry (Authority is vested in those to whom it applies.)
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To: OKSooner

Very Highly Recommended reading: “Dorothy Thompson’s Political Guide.” Written in 1938, it provides an excellent 120-page assessment of the “isms”. My favorite pages, personally, are 64 and 65.


39 posted on 01/22/2021 7:02:51 AM PST by drwoof
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To: OKSooner

All are political systems that promote an agenda oriented towards the collective. This is in contrast to classical liberalism and our Constitutional Republic that promotes an agenda oriented towards the individual.


40 posted on 01/22/2021 7:03:01 AM PST by MichaelRDanger
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