Replies

Sorry I can’t answer everyones post .... but Iscool definetly winds the prize since he responds with biblical scripture.

As you are all discovering .... there is NO Trinity in the New Testament. The term was first coined by Tertullian in his letter ‘Against Praexeus’ ... however, don’t be fooled the ‘Nicene Creed’ paragraph that some corrupt monk/copier inserted into the text, because the entire 20? page letter is an argument why Christ and God the Father ARE NOT the same being. As with Origen, Tertullian definetly were not Trinitarian, but believed similar to my beliefs that Jesus Christ was the literal Son of God the Father.

Congratulations Iscool ... since I have never considered the Col 2:9 quote before ....

Yet all of your quotes still do not exclude the ‘oneness’ of God and Christ as being “purpose’ instead of ‘individual’.

Please consider a couple of questions: The Athenasian Creed/Doctrine of the Trinity state that God and Christ are Coequal ..........

...... and yet, all of the scriptures that you cited clearly identify God as God, and Christ as Lord. Clearly God is superior to Jesus Christ, as Christ does the will of the Father.

BIG QUESTION .... is it possible for God the Father to have knowledge that Christ the Son does not have???

According to the Doctrine of the Trinity it would be impossible for the two to not have the same knowledge .... yet there are many scriptures where Christ states that his knowledge is incomplete compared to the Father.

So my next challenge for you to answer: Do God and Christ know the same knowledge? .... or is it possible the the God side of the Triune holds out a little on the Christ side of the Triune?

.. there is NO Trinity in the New Testament.

There sure is in the Book of Mormon!

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5)

...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8)

"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)

"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

Some context surrounding Colossians 2:9:”6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

See also John 10:22-37

22At that time the Feast of Dedicationb took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple courtsc in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24So the Jews gathered around Him and demanded, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’d ? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?
37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”

I’m not sure if the question of whether or not Christ/God in flesh sharing the same knowledge is relevant. Christ said he did what he saw the Father do. Christ came as the first born second Adam to be an example for all those who follow after him. We are in him as He is in the Father and theirfore we are also in the Father. In God we live and move and have our Being. Christ has access to the Father but said only the timing as to the “times of the end of days” was known only to the Father. We know that Christ as Word in flesh was led by the Spirit so we too, could learn to be led by the Spirit as he was led. So he only spoke the words the Spirit would have him speak. Thus the question of “knowing or not knowing what the Father knows” becomes irrelevant; being part of the fullness of the Godhead,Jesus would only express what that fullness of the Godhead, or the Father would allow him to express.

Such a oneness with the will of the fullness of the Godhead leaves me to believe that at the time of death of Jesus on the cross, to the extent that the fullness of the God-head could ever have died and and be extinguished, it did so through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how much God so loved the world...that the Father himself would have died for us were it possible, indeed but he sent the sinless son, Logos in Flesh to sacrifice himself for us. Oh how the Ark angels that are said to support the throne of God must have tremble at the grief of the Father.

The very Earth was shaken and darkened and earthquakes shook and the temple veil was ripped in to...as if to say to all men...”Come to me now and I will cleanse you of your sins and make you into my sons and daughters!

He is our example in terms of being obedient to the Father as we are also to be obedient to the father. Christ is with the Father now so that the Spirit could come and teach us the fullness of all things as we have need of those things.