That’s a very interesting article thanks for posting. I’d like to hear what everyone pinged thinks of it. I’m genuinely curious so much so I’m not going to respond to what anyone posts. I want each of your honest opinions.
The reason I’m so curious is because it seems to address a claim that’s often repeated here to whit: that “Protestants don’t disagree on the essentials”, and thus, are indeed, as a collection of denominations (or no denomination Christians) the true church, if not also invisible.
So what do you all say about Trent Horn’s argument that that’s a logical fallacy, the “Texas sharpshooter fallacy” because there are indeed important differences between denominations, and he then lists some. He makes other points too. So please read the whole thing and give me your honest opinion. And not just everyone pinged, all people reading this if so inclined. Thanks in advance.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/are-protestants-the-real-catholic-christians
There ARE important distinctions.
...but not so important as to condemn each other to perdition.
That’s why we have such a headbutting contest with Catholics, because their doctrine explicitly condemns all of us to Hell.
Whereas the worst that we do is only have the Lord’s Supper solely with people we are in 100% agreement with.
No purported priest on FR has demonstrated ability in that area either.
Horn is in that same category, having a degree from a Catholic seminary where he didn't have enough training in BIBLE to understand how to rightly divide the Scriptures.
He closes with this:
"So who are the most “catholic” or universal Christians? The ones who follow St. Peter’s dictum, “no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation” (2 Pet. 1:20) and adhere to the universal teachings of the church of the living God, which is “the pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15)."
In doing so, he misinterprets 2 Peter 1:20 and I Timothy 3:15, both of which have been discussed on this forum multiple times.
Really, this article is the thinnest of gruel and not worth discussion... though I'm sure my brothers and sisters, who agree on the essentials, will chime in with their insights.
That's why I created this
How Catholic am I?
Guide.
For some strange reason no one
wants to tell me their score
not even Catholics.
The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus
, that built Christendom(western civilization.)
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
+10 One God
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
+10 Christ Jesus
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
+ 1 Consubstantial with the Father
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
+ 1 For our salvation
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
+ 1 Virgin Birth
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
+10 Suffered, Died and Rose
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
+ 1 Ascended, Seated
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
+10 Come Again in Glory to Judge
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
+10 Holy Trinity
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
+10 One Visible Church
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
+ 1 One Baptism
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
+10 Resurrection of the Dead
The Ten Commandments:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God
and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not murder.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
+10 The Ten Commandments
The Greatest Commandment
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy
whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
+ 2 The Greatest Commnadments
The Seven Sacraments Catholic Church:
1. Baptism.
2. Eucharist.
3. Confirmation.
4. Reconciliation.
5. Anointing of the sick.
6. Marriage.(XY+XX, Till death do us part)
7. Holy orders.
+ 7 The Seven Sacraments
The Precepts of the Catholic Church:
1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation
and rest from servile labor.
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the
Easter season.
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by
the Church.
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
+ 5 The Precepts
The seven chief corporal works of mercy:
1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To visit the imprisoned.
5. To shelter the homeless.
6. To visit the sick.
7. To bury the dead.
+ 7 Corporal Works
The seven chief spiritual works of mercy:
1. To admonish the sinner.
2. To instruct the ignorant.
3. To counsel the doubtful.
4. To comfort the sorrowful.
5. To bear wrongs patiently.
6. To forgive all injuries.
7. To pray for the living and the dead.
+ 7 Spiritual Works
Pro-Life - From Conception Until Natural Death
+15 Pro-Life
7
No, baptism does not regenerate someone, it does not give them spiritual life. The Spirit gives life, as He always does and has.(John 6:63)
Yes, Hell is forever, conscious torment. No soul annihilation.
That's a more difficult question.
IMO, there is no FREE will. There is will and as I read Scripture God gives us the choice. Man cannot come to God unless God draws him (John 6:44) but I don't know that God's grace is irresistible.
Pharaoh hardened his heart many times against God until God gave him over to that hard heart and then God Himself hardened pharoah's heart.
I don't think that man's being able to resist the drawing of God means that God is not sovereign, but I think God in His sovereign will decided to let man make the decision himself.
There are too many passages in Scripture that make mention of choosing God or choosing for Him.
It's not that God couldn't divinely choose to save some over others. I just think that He doesn't and He foreknows who will respond to Him or not.
My honest opinion is Trent Horn only cares about defending the Roman Catholic church. Truth is absolute - even if no one accepts or believes it. That truth can be found in God’s divinely revealed word and through the Holy Spirit is received by those who hearts are opened to Him.