Posted on 05/29/2019 12:37:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
Over and...
Over and...
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As Nature abhors a vacuum; Rome hates an empty category.
Or a data array with NULL in it.
I didn’t think so. Your post is an admission what Rome does today was not handed down from the Apostles. You killed your own thesis.
Els meister, since it is my son, who is a newly commissioned Air Force Officer, and your grandson is a newly commissioned Army Officer, would I be correct in assuming that you must be a ton of years older than me? 😁🤣😆🙃👍🇵🇭 Maybe a limerick would be in order. 👍
There once was two great new military guys
With 2nd Lieutenant bars as their new prize
I know they’ll be great
They will never be late
But it’s my son who will be the one who flies.
😁✈️
I guess no one wants to play your little comparison game cause most realize that God does not save people based on comparisons with each other. Not like, *well, you're a a better Christian/Catholic than 90% of the rest of them, so you're in*.
God's standard is absolute perfection. *Be ye holy, as I am holy*.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Your checklist leaves WAY too much room for boasting before God.
Has your made up checklist been approved by the Vatican for measuring one's compliance to your idea of what a *good* Catholic or Christian should be?
Or is this your own arbitrary standard used to measure others by? And why? Cause it seems like you're pretty proud of your score and smug about it on a criteria you made up.
Convenient, isn't it? Set up the standard and get a 100%.
I'll bet God is really impressed.
Do you think God is going to give you a theology test to get into heaven or something?
Oooo...just watched that movie again a few months ago. One of my favorites!
“I think of a man and then take away reason and accountability.” … not that I am incapable of reason OR accountability, mind you. ;o)
I thought of it again when Mayor Pete announced his presidential run. “Don’t come knocking!”
You think so??????
But you know what we do find in the Bible?
Matthew 23: 8-10 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
And that they explain away with their knee jerk canned responses.
So it goes to show that even if it were in the Bible spelled out with the specific words that they demand it be in, it would be irrelevant if they didn't want to believe it.
Cause clearly when something IS spelled out as specifically as they demand in the Bible, if they want to disobey it, they'll find some excuse to do so.
ouch............
I still think it’s missing that list of “venial” and “mortal” sins. ;o)
As I said.... convenient.
I couldn’t get a list of mortal/venial sins, even when I was a catholic, so I doubt you will get one now. Since I didn’t want to mess with the big M, for mortal sin, I just wanted to commit venial sins, that were just short of mortal sins, so I could enjoy committing sins.
I felt like the Catholic Church was always trying to spoil my fun. I asked a priest once, and he said, anything that is serious sin, is probably a mortal sin. OK, I said what is serious sin? He said, anything of a serious nature. I walked away, mumbling to myself.
Later, I figured my mortal sin meter, spun so fast, someone could use it as a fan. 😆
Could you tell me, how much is a ‘ton’?
Twenty five or more or is it just one?
Pound the ground or soar high;
They’ve both pledged to die;
For our Country.
But; hopefully; it’ll be the OTHER sob that dies for his.
AKA Patton
Please. Do NOT set me up like this; as I've not had my coffee yet.
Data miners probably have a fairly thick folder with my life laid out in it.
After all; pickup three GPS signals and you can be located - 4 will get ya REALLY accurately.
I never said that the Catholic liturgy is identical to what was celebrated by St. Justin, Martyr or any of our ancient role models in Antioch, Jerusalem, Rome or Alexandria. That would be an incredibly stupid thing for me to say,--- yes, both incredible and stupid.
They provided us with the essential structure of the Liturgy, which was handed down to them from the Apostles.
You might try reading Joseph Ratzinger's "The Spirit of the Liturgy" .
Your incredulity is like that of another FReeper who argued to me, quite recently, that an early embryo is not a "person" because it
I pointed out that an early embryo has ALL the essential characteristics of a human being at that stage, and that a human at 18 months, 18 years, or 80 years still has those essential characteristics.
Although she claimed to have some science background, she apparently lacked an awareness of the developmental stages in the history of a living entity.
It's amazing but not unexpected to see how institutions bastardize founding documents and founding principals. Take our Constitution for instance .... Our government - Congress, President and SC have over the centuries negated the true letter and spirit of our Constitution. In a similar vein, Rome as well as other churches have negated the letter and Spirit of the Word. This is particularly true as we see churches embracing political correctness over the truth of the gospel.
1. And from one of your own:
Sacred Tradition is unwritten truths about faith and morals. The unwritten infallible truths of Tradition, as they are expressed by God, are not expressed in words, neither written words nor spoken words...
the Sacred Magisterium can express a truth drawn from Sacred Tradition with a guarantee of infallibility that proceeds from the charisms of the Sacred Magisterium. However, such infallible statements depend, at least in part, upon the charisms of the Magisterium for their infallibility. And such infallible statements of the Magisterium are not Tradition itself, even when they are firmly based on and drawn from Tradition. Sacred Tradition itself is unwritten and unspoken. - http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/insights-tradition.htm
Which means what i said in my next reply.
The "distinctives" of Catholicism all have their origins in not merely "human," but Sacred (called "Apostolic") Tradition since these things are rooted in the Apostolic Era -- the Apostles themselves, and the first and second generation of Christians taught personally by them.
2. Translation: The "distinctives" of Catholicism is said to be from "Apostolic Tradition" with the veracity of this claim being based upon the the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility, which itself is said to be from "Apostolic Tradition."
For Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
In contrast, men such as the apostles could speak as wholly inspired of God, and thereby also provide new public revelation, neither of which Rome claims to do, thus her oral tradition cannot be equal to Scripture, much less effectively make the church magisterium to perpetually be the supreme transcendent authority over both.
Of first and foundational importance: the writing, transmission, and Canon of the Scriptures themselves. This is the earliest and (I would say) most important element of Tradition handed down to us from the Apostolic era.
3. Scripture itself provides for the discernment and establishment of a body (canon) of Scripture, as was manifestly the case by the time of Christ, and contrary to the RC premise that she is essential for men knowing what is of God. The canon is not oral tradition such as the (assumption of the) Assumption , but of men reading and finding that inspired writings have unique heavenly qualities and attestation.
However, the New Testament itself was manifestly not written by Catholics (and even the devil knows Scripture is of God and thus abuses it), and Catholicism did not provide an indisputable canon until over 1400 years after the last book was penned, and after Luther died (1546).
3a. Meanwhile, being the magisterial stewards of Scripture and authority over the historical body which provided the Scriptures no more requires or means you are the infallible authority on what it consists of and or means and whose judgments all must be submitted to, and any more than it did for those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel.
The earliest creeds (e.g. Apostles' Creed) and catechisms (e.g. the Didache): while not texts of the NT, they were contemporaneous with the writing of the NT (first century).
4. And which is no more the sure word of God than Jewish tradition.
Apostolic Succession and hierarchical structure (Bishops, Priests, Deacons)
5. Which, insofar as it is Scriptural, is not oral tradition, and which contradicts it (presbuteros and episkopos referring to the same persons), as even Jerome attests neither were presbuteros/episkopos Catholic priests.
Continuous chain of preservation/custody of the Scriptures over millennia
6. See 3a. Based upon the logic of the "we gave you the Scriptures, therefore submit to all our judgments" then 1st century souls should have submitted to the judgement of those who sat in the seat of Moses.
Christology, the sources and theological understandings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers which culminated in the later conciliar creeds (e.g. Nicene Creed).
7. The teaching office is itself Scriptural, but once again, the fact that the Jews provided some theological understanding does not make what they say to be infallible, nor the wealth of classic evangelical understanding. And under SS, the oral preaching of the word is to be followed, insofar as it is Scriptural, as was the case with that of the gospel message in the 1st c. (Acts 17:11)
Liturgical prayer, esp. the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Eucharistic realism (e.g. the Liturgy of St. James)
8. Which is another attestation to the progressive accretion of errors, and an example of why tradition is not to be followed unless consistent with Scripture. In which the Catholic Eucharist is not what the NT church believed in .
Spiritual life nourished by the Sacraments
9. Errors of which or application is part of institutionalized religion which fosters perfunctory professions, and dead rituals. Another reason to leave Catholicism for living evangelical faith which multitudes of Catholics have found therein.
Constant sharing of spiritual goods in the Communion of Saints/Mystical Body of Christ
10. Which is another fallacy of tradition, with praying to created beings in Heaven being nowhere see in Scripture , despite its over 200 recorded prayers inspired by the Holy Spirit , or in instructions on who to address.
Honoring of the Blessed Saints in Heaven and of Mary, benefiting from their intercession
11. Likewise the adulation and even worship (once the word games are exposed) of a heavenly demigoddess, to which are ascribed, without censure, attributes, titles and glory which are nowhere given to any created being, but only to God .
Our own constant intercession in living contact with the Body of Christ, whose Members are both in this world and in the next
12. Meaning prayers to which, refuted in #7
Incarnational/Sacramental view of reality
13. Meaning ritual over relationship via the evangelical gospel of Scripture (Acts 10:34-43) and faith in a "another christ" whose material appearance does not correspond to what he materially is, in contrast to Scripture which warns of such delusion.
Confidence in the promises of Christ and Holy Spirit's guidance of the Church and thus the authority and holiness of her official doctrines (Magisterium)
14. Which presumption and logic is exposed in 3a, for in reality the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved by Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Thus once again your attempted support for Catholicism is exposed as being an argument against it, yet as with others, its propaganda likely will just parroted by wannabe RC apologists again.
Yet I fail of the degree of holiness and faith the prima NT church exampled and needed, and which the church of the living God needs in order to to manifest itself as being so, and as grounded in and supporting the Truth. Time for greater repentance.
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