One last major conference?

2-18-12-06 | Dangus

[dangus]

Could Notre Dame start its own conference.

This is not a prediction. This is trying to get a conversation started.

Conferences no longer need 12 teams to have a conference final. Five is a lousy number of major conferences for the post-season. And Texas has set precedent by having a special status within the Big 12. Could Notre Dame "longhorn" its way to a sixth major conference?

Notre Dame declined joining the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), but the ACC isn't that great of a football conference. There's not much beyond Clemson. Notre Dame would find better competition in a league featuring Central Florida (#7 according to computer rankings), Army (#22), Cincinnati (#24), Temple (#34), and Navy. Add #3 Notre Dame to that list, and, this year at least, you'd have a core of a higher-quality league than the Pac-12, the ACC or the Big Ten.

With Notre Dame plus those five teams who would kill to be in a major conference, who else might join? Would #15 West Virginia bolt the Big 12, where the team has a secondary status to Texas? Would traditional rival Boston College (#37), the sole other BCS Catholic school, prefer more local competitors like Temple, Navy and Army (plus Notre Dame and Cincinnati) to teams such as Wake Forest, Louisville, and NC State? Or would Syracuse (#17), another traditional rival? Other candidates would seem to include Memphis (#45) and Houston.

Notre Dame turned down the Big Ten. But the Big Ten would've commanded nine games out of Notre Dame, forcing ND to break traditional match-ups, and ND couldn't command special status in a league with Michigan and Ohio State. But this new league would command only six or seven. Notre Dame would have the scheduling freedom to maintain rivalries with Michigan and Michigan State, while NOT having to play teams like Rutgers, Illinois, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin and Maryland, with whom Notre Dame has zero interest in.

Consider this line-up:

#3 Notre Dame

#7 Central Florida

#22 Army (a traditional ND opponent)

#24 Cincinnati

#34 Temple

Navy (another tradition)

plus two of #37 Boston College (another tradition), #17 Syracuse, Houston, Memphis... and Connecticut.

Yeah, U-Conn's football team sucks, but a basketball league including Cincy, UConn, Notre Dame and Temple would rock.

[yarddog]

I think right now Notre Dame is better off as an independent.

[xkaydet65]

NDU belongs to the ACC in all sports save FB and hockey. In hoops ACC is as good as it gets. Your conf includes Army and Navy. Their status varies greatly year to year. Army may be #22 but their schedule was not really challenging. The best game was actually their loss at Oklahoma. Three years ago they lost at home to Fordham. So a conf built on the service academies and schools like Cincy is a non starter I believe.

[clashfan]

Why would Notre Dame even want to be in a football conference? They already have an unfair advantage not needing to play for a conference championship to get into the playoffs.

[Mozzafiato]

That’s a weak conference. You’re basing it on one year rather than looking at the historical significance of those teams. If UCF, Army, and Cincinnati had played ND this year none of them would be as highly ranked as they are now. Syracuse was proven to be a fraud. Notre Dame would best fit in the Big Ten but they would never go for it because it’s a landmine they’d never get thru without 1-4 losses. And, they would lose their annual rivalry games, as you mentioned. There needs to be an expanded playoff, with major conference champions getting a bye in week one. That will force ND to get on board. They lucked out this year...all of their rival teams were having down years.

[be-baw]

From the “Big 10” you can have Nebraska, as long as you take Rutgers with them.

Seriously, I’d like the Big 10 to have only 10 teams.

[yarddog]

Notre Dame’s natural site would be the Big 10 but there are already too many teams in it.

They could take a bus to many games.

[CommerceComet]

Would #15 West Virginia bolt the Big 12, where the team has a secondary status to Texas?

Why would West Virginia want to bolt from a conference where they are secondary to Texas to join a conference where they would be secondary to Notre Dame?

[spel_grammer_an_punct_polise]

Ever since I have been a child I have wondered what the big fascination is with Notre Dame football. They never play anyone of any significance and yet they are always highly rated. It makes no sense except that it is a Catholic university. Is that the fascination?

[iowamark]

It is hardly true to say Notre Dame never plays anyone of significance. They have the biggest fan base in college football.

[iowamark]

Why would Notre Dame form a conference with relative nobodies? They have freedom as an independent. Everyone wants to play them, they can pick and choose.

[1L]

What incentive does ND have to be in a conference? They’re undefeated and headed to the so-called playoff. They’d probably have gotten in with one loss, depending on who that was to. They have their own TV deal and no one to share it with. Most of their other sports play in the ACC and one in the Big 10.

[zeestephen]

Re: “The ACC isn't that great of a football conference. There's not much beyond Clemson.”

Florida State and Miami might disagree.

And, Virginia Tech went to 25 straight Bowl games, the NCAA all time record, but almost all those games were under Frank Beamer, who retired a couple years ago.

[MrChips]

What special status does Texas have? I am not familiar with it. As for the ACC being weak and having only one top-flight team in Clemson, I think that in most years FSU would disagree with you (and I am NOT an FSU fan), and so would Virginia Tech. Maybe even Georgia Tech, who won a national title not so long ago. And as for Notre Dame "turning down" the Big Ten, perhaps you had better get your facts straight. Michigan actively campaigned AGAINST Notre Dame's inclusion in the Big Ten. Fielding Yost of Michigan and Knute Rockne of Notre Dame DESPISED each other. Rockne had the higher winning percentage (still the highest in college football). Yost envied Rockne's success. And it was widely known that Yost was highly anti-Catholic.

From Wikipedia: "In 1909, Michigan lost at home to an upstart Catholic university visiting from South Bend, Ind. Yost responded to the 11-3 defeat by describing it as an exhibition game that the Wolverines approached "caring little whether we won or lost," . . . . A year later, Yost canceled a game between the two schools shortly before it was to be played [the Notre Dame squad was en route to Ann Arbor on the train!], claiming that Notre Dame had ineligible players on its roster. He then blackballed the Irish, keeping them off the Wolverines' schedule throughout his tenure as head coach and athletic director. He retired in 1941. So many schools blackballed Notre Dame that the school adopted a nationwide schedule just to survive. As Rockne drove the Fighting Irish to succeed, the university came to represent the millions of Catholic immigrants from Europe who saw in the team a piece of themselves."

Yost even spread the false rumor that when Irish legend George Gipp died at the end of the 1920 season, the university refused to pay his medical bills or for his funeral. How ugly is that?! And during the 1920's Yost pressured Minnesota to end a series of games with the Irish. The irony is that Note Dame just went national, thereby spreading its fame, success, and recruiting into a national sphere. Thus, Notre Dame's status as an Independent has deep roots, and an honorable history. Their national schedule always includes Southern Cal and Stanford, often includes Michigan or (soon) Ohio State, usually includes an SEC school (last year Georgia and a bowl against LSU), and sometimes a home and home with Texas, or Washington, or Penn State, or Bama, or Michigan State, or Oklahoma, or Arizona State. This year, they scheduled normally tough schools in Michigan, Stanford, Virginia Tech, Florida State and Southern Cal. They have no need to apologize (one of only two schools in the country who has never played a team in a lower division . . . Gee! that was a thriller between Bama and the Citadel!) No, thank you very much, but the Irish do just fine without being in a conference.

[PAR35]

Notre Dame declined joining the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC)

Not entirely accurate. They play in the ACC for all sports but football, and they play 5 ACC football games a year. There may also be an ACC bowl tie-in. See
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article149960542.html

[MrChips]

Never play anyone of significance? Excuse me? JUst the opposite. They regularly play EVERYONE of significance. See my longer post above.

[MrChips]

Unfair? Hardly. They play the best that they can schedule year in and year out. There is a level of difficulty in a national schedule that you don’t see regionally. A conference schedule can also preclude playing the best teams in other regions. Notre Dame plays a lot of them. This conference championship game is a recent development, and the games are often rematches (Texas v. Oklahoma), or worthless jokes (Clemson v. Pitt, or Northwestern v. Ohio State). Yes, the SEC had a great contest, but in some years it has been a rematch (Bama v. LSU). A rematch is always very unfair just by its nature. There is nothing sacred about a conference championship game.

[poconopundit]

When I was at Notre Dame 1970-1974, the coach was Ara Parseghian. At the stadium we students used to chant "Ara stop the rain, Ara stop the rain" because he was considered a football god (by the Irish faithful :- )

And you state the case correctly. The Irish played a relatively easy schedule and if they beat USC the last game of the season, the sports press was biased toward ND and they would be more likely to be voted national champions.

Times have changed, however, and today ND plays some solid teams. This year they ended up facing only 2 top 25 times since USC and Stanford did not rank high this year.

But last year, ND had the toughest schedule in the country -- 6 nationally ranked teams! See the diagram from wikipedia.

The Irish know the rules of the game today. Tbey choose their opponents — many years in advance BTW — to to deliver a competitive schedule. And one of the cool things this gives ND a chance to play in some interesting matchups. For instance they paid Georgia (in South Bend) last year and will play them again in 2019. And with my home now in Athens, GA, I'm not quite sure who I'll root for!

[spel_grammer_an_punct_polise]

“They have the biggest fan base in college football.”

What in the world does that have to do with their weak schedule?

[spel_grammer_an_punct_polise]

“Never play anyone of significance? Excuse me? JUst the opposite. They regularly play EVERYONE of significance. See my longer post above.”

I read your post of above. It seems you spoke of Notre Dame and Knute Rockne which was in the 1920s. I did not see any mention of this year’s schedule.

Notre Dame’s 2018 football schedule:

Sept. 15: Notre Dame 22, Vanderbilt 17

Sept. 22: Notre Dame 56, Wake Forest 27

Sept. 29: Notre Dame 38, Stanford 17

Oct. 6: Notre Dame 45, Virginia Tech 23

Oct. 13: Notre Dame 19, Pittsburgh 14

Oct. 27: Notre Dame 44, Navy 22

Nov. 3: Notre Dame 31, Northwestern 21

Nov. 10: Notre Dame 42, Florida State 13

Nov. 17: Notre Dame 36, Syracuse 3

Nov. 24: Notre Dame 24, USC 16

Dec. 29: vs. Clemson in the Cotton Bowl, 4 p.m.,

Who, on that list, other than the Cotton Bowl, do you consider to be significant? I think that you have to look at the combined results of their opponents. Notre Dame always has what I refer to as a powder puff schedule.

I’m sorry: They played no one of any significance in 2018 and will play only one of any significance!: Clemson in the Cotton Bowl and will get their butts handed to them in the Cotton Bowl.