Posted on 07/04/2018 6:19:14 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
A glorious 4th of July for the Union cause. General Lee's Army of Northern Virginia begins it retreat from Pennsylvania after having been defeated by General Meade's Army of the Potomac at the Battle of Gettysburg. General Grant accepts the surrender of the City of Vicksburg from General Pemberton. About 32,000 Confederate soldiers stack their weapons and are paroled by the Union forces. This is the second Confederate Army to surrender to Grant. The Union now controls the Mississippi river and the Confederate state is split into two parts.
The Confederate constitution explicitly established slavery. Does that mean the Confederate government was explicitly unjust because it lacked the consent of the slaves?
Prepare to be bombarded with excremental nonsense about how the United States Constitution “enshrined” the practice and legitimacy of slavery.
> nonsense about how the United States Constitution “enshrined” the practice and legitimacy of slavery <
The Constitution certainly did not enshrine slavery. There is no clause anywhere in the Constitution explicitly protecting the practice.
But I must gently disagree with you in that, as I see it, the Constitution legitimized slavery by allowing slaves to be counted as 3/5 of a person . True, the word “slave” is not mentioned. But the phrase “all other people” can only refer to slaves, and was it meant to refer to slaves.
By the way, some liberals take the above as an excuse to vilify the Founders, and to vilify the Constitution itself. I reject the approach completely. A man can only be judged in the context of his times.
Here’s the 3/5 clause:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
so much oral flatulence
“The Confederate constitution explicitly established slavery. Does that mean the Confederate government was explicitly unjust because it lacked the consent of the slaves?”
Is your use of the word “explicitly” gratuitous, or are you deliberately contouring the discussion in a way that avoids the uncomfortable fact that the United States constitution included pro-slavery provisions?
"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."
Not long at all.
For one day - the anniversary of our nation's birth - could you please constrain your appetite for scatological ideation.
True enough.
The Constitution recognized a practice in effect at the time of the creation of our nation. There are two oblique references to “those bound to Service” and “persons held to service or labor”.
The first is the 3/5ths rule you already referenced. The second is the Slave Clause - Article IV, Section 2, Clause 3.
George Orwell would be proud of the torturous machinations required to find a suitable euphemism because they were too timid to say the word aloud: Slavery.
But recognizing a practice and legitimizing that practice are two different things. Pragmatic northerners chose to turn a blind eye and offered the mealy-mouthed allowances as a sop to southern interests in order to gain what they all needed - a national union.
“so much oral flatulence”
Were you able to determine if it was aimed in your general direction?
You first.
There is no longer a place in America for southerners.
Considering Woodrow Wilson, LBJ, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and the two Bush administrations I would agree they have no place in the White House. Haven't you gotten your revenge for Sherman yet?
Not to mention a clause protecting slave imports.
Aw, someone’s a butt hurt Lost Causer. There there little Johnny Reb.
I do recommend Bruce Catton’s books which I read as a child - it generated a life long interest in the Civil War. He seems to be a forgotten author these days much like the great Thomas Costain is a forgotten author on English Medieval books.
For those who like novels (and animals) about the Civil War I recommend Richard Adams’ “Traveller” about Lee’s war horse. It is an adult novel but told through the eyes of an animal. He’s the author of the classic “Watership Down” and “The Plague Dogs.”
Happy 4th, everyone!
I have read and own every book Catton has written. One of the best CW historian and authors ever. Had a chance to hear him deliver about a 20 minute lecture on the Fall of Richmond many years back.
Not everybody on this forum is playing with a full deck, and there are lots of low IQ types too.
The FOUNDERS would have sided with the Confederacy, and the South was lied to about slavery and would never have ratified the Constitution if they had any hint of the upcoming betrayal by the Federals in DC.
I remember now why Catton was the guest speaker. It was in celebration of the return of the Flag of The Confederacy that had flown over the Capitol the day the Union Army entered Richmond. A Union cavalryman was first on the scene and hauled down the flag. He tucked into his coat and then sent it back to his home in Massachusetts. His family kept the flag. In the 80s, the Daughters of the Confederacy and the Confederate museum in Richmond got wind of the ownership of the flag. After several years of negotiating, the owners agreed to return the flag to Virginia. A family member turned the flag over to the Governor of Virginia, who then turned it over to the Director of the Confederate Museum. The flag is on display at that museum.
Catton then delivered a disertaion on the fall of Richmond.
LOL
Do you really think the Constitution would have been ratified by the Southern States if they knew “Abolitionists” would have stripped them of their property with “four score”?
No way Jose.
Regardless, we are where we are.
The 13% where doing better every year until the communists weaponized them in the 60’s.
Time to say, in my opinion, that current racial demographic of the country works, ALL citizens of every stripe need to be AMERICAN FIRST.
The “INEVITABLE WHITE MINORITY” BS being pushed by left wing Jews and Communists is done, this country is 62% white and is going to stay that way .
Severely limit legal immigration, and unless the Canadian or Mexican Government is persecuting a person, NO ASYLUM OF ANY KIND IN THE USA.
COMMUNISTS in DC and the Press and Academia must be NEUTRALIZED, no exceptions, if it takes mass arrests , seizure of assets , and executions, so be it.
Happy Independence Day
How cool is that?! I can’t imagine hearing him in the flesh. A time when historians managed to be objective and yet sympathetic...true Americans. His trilogy made me a Civil War buff.
It was great. About 700 of us Union re-enactors had marched up the main drag in Richmond to the Capitol. We had a band from the State of Maine in the lead, next was about 100 black re-enactors with bayonets fixed on their rifle muskets lead the rest of troops up to the Capitol. It was quite a show.
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