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To: BroJoeK

Total, complete fantasy.
Sure, Confederates in 1861 may have hated damnyankees, but none of them wanted to become one!

Southerners very much did see by 1860-61 that industrialization was the way forward. They also saw that the existing structure in which they were being systematically bled dry to finance Northern industrialization would make their own development nearly impossible.

“Secession, southerners argued, would ‘liberate’ the South and produce the kind of balanced economy that was proving so successful in the North and so unachievable in the South.” (John A. Garraty and Robert McCaughey, The American Nation: A History of the United States to 1877, Volume One, Sixth Edition, New York: Harper & Row, Publishers, 1987, pp. 418-419, emphasis in original)

“The people of the Southern States, whose almost exclusive occupation was agriculture, early perceived a tendency in the Northern States to render the common government subservient to their own purposes by imposing burdens on commerce as a protection to their manufacturing and shipping interests. Long and angry controversies grew out of these attempts, often successful, to benefit one section of the country at the expense of the other. And the danger of disruption arising from this cause was enhanced by the fact that the Northern population was increasing, by immigration and other causes, in a greater ratio than the population of the South. By degrees, as the Northern States gained preponderance in the National Congress, self-interest taught their people to yield ready assent to any plausible advocacy of their right as a majority to govern the minority without control.” Jefferson Davis Address to the Confederate Congress April 29, 1861

“What do you propose, gentlemen of the free soil party? Do you propose to better the condition of the slave? Not at all. What then do you propose? You say you are opposed to the expansion of slavery. Is the slave to be benefited by it? Not at all. What then do you propose? It is not humanity that influences you in the position which you now occupy before the country. It is that you may have an opportunity of cheating us that you want to limit slave territory within circumscribed bounds. It is that you may have a majority in the Congress of the United States and convert the government into an engine of Northern aggrandizement. It is that your section may grow in power and prosperity upon treasures unjustly taken from the South, like the vampire bloated and gorged with the blood which it has secretly sucked from its victim. You desire to weaken the political power of the Southern states, - and why? Because you want, by an unjust system of legislation, to promote the industry of the New England States, at the expense of the people of the South and their industry.” Jefferson Davis 1860 speech in the US Senate

“Before... the revolution [the South] was the seat of wealth, as well as hospitality....Wealth has fled from the South, and settled in regions north of the Potomac: and this in the face of the fact, that the South, in four staples alone, has exported produce, since the Revolution, to the value of eight hundred millions of dollars; and the North has exported comparatively nothing. Such an export would indicate unparalleled wealth, but what is the fact? ... Under Federal legislation, the exports of the South have been the basis of the Federal revenue.....Virginia, the two Carolinas, and Georgia, may be said to defray three-fourths of the annual expense of supporting the Federal Government; and of this great sum, annually furnished by them, nothing or next to nothing is returned to them, in the shape of Government expenditures. That expenditure flows in an opposite direction - it flows northwardly, in one uniform, uninterrupted, and perennial stream. This is the reason why wealth disappears from the South and rises up in the North. Federal legislation does all this.” ——Missouri Senator Thomas Hart Benton

[To a Northern Congressman] “You are not content with the vast millions of tribute we pay you annually under the operation of our revenue laws, our navigation laws, your fishing bounties, and by making your people our manufacturers, our merchants, our shippers. You are not satisfied with the vast tribute we pay you to build up your great cities, your railroads, your canals. You are not satisfied with the millions of tribute we have been paying you on account of the balance of exchange, which you hold against us. You are not satisfied that we of the South are almost reduced to the condition of overseers of Northern Capitalist. You are not satisfied with all this; but you must wage a relentless crusade against our rights and our institutions.” Rep. John H. Reagan of Texas

“Northerners are the fount of most troubles in the new Union. Connecticut and Massachusetts exhaust our strength and substance and its inhabitants are marked by such a perversity of character they have divided themselves from the rest of America - Thomas Jefferson in an 1820 letter

“The north has adopted a system of revenue and disbursements, in which an undue proportion of the burden of taxation has been imposed on the South, and an undue proportion of its proceeds appropriated to the north ... The South as the great exporting portion of the Union has, in reality, paid vastly more than her due proportion of the revenue,” John C Calhoun Speech on the Slavery Question,” March 4, 1850


200 posted on 04/16/2018 5:35:08 PM PDT by FLT-bird (.)
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To: FLT-bird
We are a peculiar people, sir! We are an agricultural people; we are a primitive but a civilized people. We have no cities – we don’t want them. We have no literature – we don’t need any yet … We want no manufactures; we desire no trading, no mechanical or manufacturing classes … As long as we have our rice, our sugar, our tobacco, and our cotton, we can command wealth to purchase all we want from those nations with which we are in amity, and to lay up money besides.” -- Senator Louis B. Wigfall of Texas, 1861
201 posted on 04/16/2018 5:40:44 PM PDT by x
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To: FLT-bird
FLT-bird: "Southerners very much did see by 1860-61 that industrialization was the way forward..."

Your 1987 authors are fantasizing.
In fact, there is nothing in any of the quotes about producing a "balanced economy" in the South, far from it.
Southerners hated the North's industrialization and didn't want to support it.
None said they wanted more industry "in the South"

FLT-bird quoting Jefferson Davis, April 29, 1861: "The people of the Southern States, whose almost exclusive occupation was agriculture, early perceived a tendency in the Northern States to render the common government subservient to their own purposes by imposing burdens on commerce as a protection to their manufacturing and shipping interests...."

What's true here is that many Southerners wanted low tariffs, and so did many from other regions.
What's not true is the claim that Federal spending went disproportionately to the North.
It didn't.

But the biggest deceit here is the claim that Northerners somehow ran Washington, DC and could do what they wished.
The opposite is true: Southern Democrats were the power brokers in Washington, DC, from about 1800 until secession in 1861.
What Southerners wanted they got, what they didn't want didn't happen, period.

FLT-bird quoting Jefferson Davis, April 29, 1861: "By degrees, as the Northern States gained preponderance in the National Congress..."

But they didn't, ever, until secession in 1861.
Sure, by 1860 for the first time there was a Republican majority in one house of Congress, but Southerners still controlled the other, and the President.

Of course, Democrats being Democrats naturally go nuts when out of political power, then as now.

FLT-bird quoting Missouri Senator Thomas Hart Benton: "Under Federal legislation, the exports of the South have been the basis of the Federal revenue.....
Virginia, the two Carolinas, and Georgia, may be said to defray three-fourths of the annual expense of supporting the Federal Government; and of this great sum, annually furnished by them, nothing or next to nothing is returned to them, in the shape of Government expenditures."

Both claims are false: those four states did not "defray" 3/4 of Federal expenses, nor was Federal spending focused outside the South.
Nor is the claim that Southerners were impoverished credible because, in fact, Southern planters and their white neighbors enjoyed the highest average standard of living of any country ever.

For example, in 1840, total US exports (including specie) were $132 million of which $61 million (46%) was cotton.
Everything else listed as "Southern products" was also produced outside the Confederate South and so continued with strong exports even after secession in 1861.

FLT-bird quoting John C Calhoun, 1850: "The north has adopted a system of revenue and disbursements, in which an undue proportion of the burden of taxation has been imposed on the South, and an undue proportion of its proceeds appropriated to the north ...
The South as the great exporting portion of the Union has, in reality, paid vastly more than her due proportion of the revenue."

It was not true in 1840 or 1850 or 1860.
In fact, truly Southern exports represented about half the total and Federal dollars were spent correspondingly, about half in the South.

208 posted on 04/17/2018 6:03:48 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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