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To: jeffersondem; rockrr; DoodleDawg; DiogenesLamp
jeffersondem: "So that line (HE has excited domestic Insurrections) in the Declaration of Independence does not refer to slavery...

"...Note well Jefferson’s words: 'he is now exciting those VERY PEOPLE to rise in arms among us (emphasis added).' "

Note, for jeffersondem's claim to be valid, the two different phrases here ("domestic insurrections" vs. "rise in arms") must refer to the same things.
But in fact, they do not.

  1. "Domestic insurrections" refers to actual insurrections of British loyalists against local patriots in Virginia & elsewhere in the months before July, 1776.
    Note on this list
    • Savages' Old Fields, SC
    • Great Bridge VA
    • Snow Campaign SC
    • Burning of Norfolk VA
    • Moore's Creek Bridge NC

  2. "rise in arms" refers to Dunmore's Proclamation, November 1775, promising freedom for indentured servants & slaves who serve the British cause.
Since they are not the same things, jeffersondem's claims here, as elsewhere, are bogus.
326 posted on 11/30/2017 2:44:05 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

“”Domestic insurrections” refers to actual insurrections of British loyalists against local patriots in Virginia & elsewhere in the months before July, 1776.”

That is an interesting comment.

May we see your sources for the term “domestic insurrections?”


327 posted on 11/30/2017 4:47:31 AM PST by jeffersondem
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To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; rockrr
“”Domestic insurrections” refers to actual insurrections of British loyalists against local patriots in Virginia & elsewhere in the months before July, 1776.”

Why does the mention of “Domestic insurrections” mean it is limited to the months before July, 1776?

This sounds like an arbitrary time frame of your invention, not Jefferson's or the signers of the DOI.

Jefferson wrote in the DOI of “a long Train of Abuses.” Jefferson said the king “has refused for a long Time” to cause others . . .

Jefferson said “Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury.” This sounds like long-term grievances, not something that was limited to months before July, 1776.

We know the hated Stamp Act was passed in 1765. And the hated Tea Act in 1773.

What is your purpose in trying to limit the scope of grievances to just a few months in 1776? And how is it justified?

358 posted on 11/30/2017 3:37:07 PM PST by jeffersondem
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To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; rockrr
“Note, for jeffersondem’s claim to be valid, the two different phrases here (”domestic insurrections” vs. “rise in arms”) must refer to the same things.
But in fact, they do not.”

There is an obscure story, whose origins have been lost in antiquity, that could support your assertion above. I offer it for what it is worth.

The way the story is told, a dispatch rider traveled 80 miles to deliver a copy of Lord Dunmore’s Proclamation to Thomas Jefferson.

Before Jefferson could read the document, the rider blurted out: “Lord Dunmore has called for slaves to start domestic Insurrections and to fight their masters!”

Jefferson was ashen faced as he mumbled to those assembled: “This is terrible news. Domestic slave insurrections would be bad for me as a master, bad for New York and Massachusetts and other slave states, and bad for the proposed revolution.”

Then, the story goes, Jefferson read Lord Dunmore’s Proclamation in its entirety and began to laugh out loud!

“This is great news,” Jefferson exclaimed!

“Lord Dunmore has not called for slaves to participate in domestic Insurrections and fight their masters. Lord Dunmore has only called for slaves to rise in arms and fight their masters,” Jefferson continued.

“This makes all the difference in the world,” Jefferson was reported to have said.

This story could be the missing link that proves your point. If I were you, I would embrace it.

386 posted on 12/03/2017 8:11:58 PM PST by jeffersondem
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