US Army to Search for New 7.62mm Rifle

Military.com ^ | 27 Apr, 2017 | Matthew Cox

[MtnClimber]

The U.S. Army soon will begin searching for a 7.62mm rifle to become its formal squad designated marksman rifle for combat platoons and squads.

A recent directed requirement from Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Daniel Allyn prompted Army weapons officials to write a new requirement, and most likely they will conduct a competition that will result in the service equipping each combat arms squad with a new 7.62mm squad designated marksman rifle, Matt Walker, deputy for the Lethality Branch at the Maneuver Center for Excellence at Fort Benning, Georgia, told Military.com.

Equipping units with SDM rifles so they can shoot farther than the standard 5.56mm M4 carbine is not new.

Weapons officials have "operational need statements from every unit that has deployed for the last 16 years saying that 'a squad designated marksman is a requirement in theater,' " Walker said.

"The presence of a 7.62mm rifle in the formation is nothing new, but when [units] leave theater, they have to turn their guns in," he said. "A lot of the division and the corps commanders are very adamant saying, 'Hey, we need to get those assets back in order to train with them to be competent.'........

Part of the goal of the effort was to arm snipers with a rifle that doesn't stick out to the enemy as a sniper weapon.

[Big Red Badger]

Rolling Block...
Just shot an Uberti..357 cal.
What a Hoot!
22 in. Barrel.
They call it a
Baby Rolling Block...
But she’s got A Bark!

[DocRock]

Springfield Armory SAR-48 built on the FN-FAL platform works very well.

[Celtic Conservative]

That would be a good match for my uberti .357 cattleman SAA.

CC

[2111USMC]

From reading the article it sounds like they are looking for a medium range rifle, not a sniper rifle.

They don’t even want to put a scope on it.

[jim_trent]

My father served in submarines in WWII. One of the things he told me was that they had a modified Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 aboard. The 45-70’s were blanks. It was used for throwing a line to a nearby ship.

[DAC21]

“I’d like one of those M-1 Garands”

Just emptied a clip on Monday from a Buddies M-1. Very accurate gun out to 70 yards with Iron Sites. Too fricking heavy for now days.

[Big Red Badger]

She looks nice next to the
Uberti..44 caliber Walker!

[2ndDivisionVet]

I found a WWII era “Bluejacket’s Manual” as a teen in a thrift store. I seem to remember that from reading it. Gave the book to a neighbor who had actually been in the Navy in WWII.

[BwanaNdege]

Very accurate gun out to 70 yards with Iron Sites. Too fricking heavy for now days.

When the Marines first arrived at the Front in WWI, the Germans moved within 100 yards and began setting up camp for the evening. Naturally, the Marines began picking them off, probably with the 30-06 1903 Springfield with iron sights.

So the Germans moved back 100 yards and started to set up camp. Marines resumed fire. The Germans kept moving back until, at 600 yards, the Marines gave it a rest.

With the M-14 (yeah, I know, 7.62 vs 30-06, but similar performance) I put 7 of 10 rounds in a 12 inch bull from 200 yds, Standing and also 7 of 10 in a 20 inch bull from 500 yards, Prone - all with iron sights.

As to weight of the weapon - that is not the issue. The weight of the ammo is what makes the biggest difference. In Vietnam I carried 500 rounds of 5.56 - as field radio operator. 500 rounds of 7.62 or 30-06 weighs about twice as much as 5.56.

[archy]

Seems a Springfield Armory M1A National Match with a stock made to look more like a M4 would be a good choice.

It'd be a great choice for shooting the 600-yard National Match Service Rifle course at 600 yards. On a range, on a sunny day, with windage flags flying and an ambulance handy nearby. But a rifle that weighs 11 pounds before adding a telescopic sight and mount, , much less night vision equipment and a suppressor, and has to be carried in a plastic suitcase to protect the optics? I went through combat arms basic training with the M14, carried M14s, M14E2s and M21 rifles on combat ops and got my first combat kill through an ANPVS1 starlight scope when I was nineteen; I am near 70 now. and you want to put a SOPMOD stock on it, eliminating the in-buttstock cleaning kit, and adding another piece of rattle-bait to the poor shooter's load, for a guy- or girl- who has to keep up with an infantry squad made up of folks armed with the M4 because the M16A2 was too long and heavy?

I do not have the answer. For myself, it'd probably be a 7,62 bullpup. For the Russians, and their bloddy decade in Afghanistan, the answer was the SVD Dragonov. Of what we have now, the M14-based M25, designed by and for Special Forces, NOT average first-enlistment grunts, isn't too bad. But I suspect that an entirely new weapons platform is forthcoming. And then some bright character will suggest giving everybody one....

When the Soviets finally pulled out of Afghanistan, they were issuing 3 or 4 SVD sniper rifles per squad. The maximum range of an RPG-7 antitank rocket launcher is 900 meters; a good SVD will reach out and touch a little farther than that, given good ammo.

And we may be fighting in cities and towns soon, MOUT in Army-speak. Up and down stairs, with ranges measured in both living room distances and city blocks away, with a three-and-a half foot long, 14-pound-plus rifle and ammo? Don't think so.

[archy]

Wonder if we have any Krag–Jørgensen rifles still sitting around?

In the 1980s, we still had hundreds of thousands of rounds worth of .30-40 ammunition [.30 Government] in storage bunkers at the Naval Weapons Support Center at Crane, Indiana, turn-ins from WWII when the Krags were issued to state militia forces filling in for their called-up National Guardsmen.

[PapaBear3625]

The U.S. Army soon will begin searching for a 7.62mm rifle to become its formal squad designated marksman rifle for combat platoons and squads.

The Soviet Dragonov rifle was used more as a "squad marksman" rifle, than as a real sniper rifle.

Rather than engage in a billion-dollar procurement cycle, just authorize purchase of an existing, off the shelf, semi-auto marksman's rifle. But that would not put $$$ into the pockets of people inside the Beltway, so that's unlikely to happen.

[archy]

In Vietnam I carried 500 rounds of 5.56 - as field radio operator.

500 rounds of 7.62 or 30-06 weighs about twice as much as 5.56.

You're not quite telling the whole story. That PRC25 or PRC77 radio was another 15 pounds, plus the handset and antenna. Plus your water, and Crations or LRRPS for lunch. And supper. or breakfast.

a 250-round can of linked 7,62 mg ammo is 18 pounds, one reason they cut them back to 200 rounds in canvas bandoleers and cardboard boxes. So adding in 8 pounds of M16A1, you were humping at least 50, 60 pounds, water weighing in at around 7 pounds/gallon. Oh, and your helmet and flak jacket, mustn't forget those....

[archy]

Now there are a good number of those floating around E. Asia from what I’ve heard. Mostly S. Korea. If CMP can just get them back here...

Taiwan. They not only received thousands of M14 rifles, they got the tooling and dies from TRW and Winchester, and produced their own versions, as the Type 57. Now they make their own 5.56mm version of the M4, the Type 95, and might be persuaded to turn loose of some of their old obsolete Yankee rifles, still sometimes seen in ROC parades and military reviews. But then so too are their Type 24 Mauser '98 rifles, the first modern military rifles in production for the ROC at their three primary arsenals when they were still located on the Chinese mainland.

[archy]

The Soviet Dragonov rifle was used more as a "squad marksman" rifle, than as a real sniper rifle.

It was actually the other way around, the SVD, originally issued as a sniper rifle to the single trained platoon sniper, was found to be needed on a larger scale as the squads were outgunned by RPK light machineguns, PK and DShK heavies, and RPG-7s, RPG-7s, and RPG-7s. And Chinese copies of RPG-7s, the antitank weapons used to pick off the Soviet support weapons and leaders first. The Molot factory set to work, and by the late 1980s the squads were at least a little better off.

You might find the operations of conscript paratrooper, Muradov Nurmatdzhon Nimanovich at the Battle for Hill 3234 fought by the 39 men of the 9th company, 345th Independent Guards Airborne Regiment of the VDV to be instructive. Attacked by 250-300 dukhai they lost two men killed. But they had a very proficient sniper, later awarded the Order of the Red Banner and the Order of the Red Star.

Comparisons with the Battle of Wanat in which 300-400 Al Queda and Taliban troops were repelled by 75 US and Afghan National Army troops at a remote outpost have been made, as have been comparisons with the Texians at the Alamo, and the Finns in 1940 at Kolla, at *Killer Hill.*

[archy]

My father served in submarines in WWII. One of the things he told me was that they had a modified Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 aboard. The 45-70’s were blanks. It was used for throwing a line to a nearby ship.

All true. They were replaced in the late 1970s by M14 rifles, using a dummy rifle grenade filled with orange 75-pound test *messenger line,*, used to haul back 550-pound test line, used to pass back a 2000-pound test line, at which point fueling lines and communications and other electrical cables could be transferred. It was a point of pride with some of the M14 shooters to be able to place their rubber grenade through an open hatchway or hit a fiberglass panel that would shatter on impact. Sorry, Chief, the wind caught it....

[PapaBear3625]

The US Ranger and SpecOps community has been using the FN SCAR-H 7.62 rifle since 2009. Rather than going through a new procurement cycle, just order a few more.

[Lurker]

I’d say go back to the M-40 and add a few modern touches. It worked well enough for me.

L

[MileHi]

Some folks recommend an AR-10 variant. I’ve shot a few an they seem to all have one thing in common, they’re friggin heavy. As you say, it may require a completely new design.

[Celtic Conservative]

Are the mausers in 8mm? That would be oksay too.

CC