The F-4 Is a Great Fighter With a Bad Reputation

War is Boring ^ | June 25, 2016 | Sebastien Roblin

[C19fan]

The McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II is a legendary aircraft — an icon of the Vietnam War and the archetype of the third-generation jet fighter designs that entered service in the 1960s. More than 5,000 of these heavy supersonic fighters were built, and hundreds continue to serve and even see combat in several air forces today. But the Phantom’s record in air-to-air combat over Vietnam — especially when compared to its successor, the F-15 Eagle, which has never been shot down in air-to-air combat — has left it with a reputation of being a clumsy bruiser reliant on brute engine power and obsolete weapons technology.

[TalonDJ]

Nice!
We live near a range but have not seen anything making ground attack runs yet. One of these days I want to go over there, set up a sun shade and just hang out for an afternoon and wait.

[Old Yeller]

Meanest looking fighter ever built. I loved that plane.

[Old Yeller]

I used to see the plane fly over my house as a kid as I lived in the flight path of McConnell A.F.B. In Wichita during the late 60’s and the 70’s.

[Lee Enfield]

F-4 was a flying pile of ugly, which made it that much more embarrassing when it made you go to the chutes. And you would.

[PJammers]

The E model had a gun. You could also hang a gun pod on any hard mount. Actually witnessed one with 5 gun pods hung on it. Rumor was you could not fire them all at once or you would stall.

[PJammers]

The E model had a gun. You could also hang a gun pod on any hard mount. Actually witnessed one with 5 gun pods hung on it. Rumor was you could not fire them all at once or you would stall.

[joe fonebone]

I was on the FID and watched an F-4 eat a deck wrench on it’s way down the cat.... the damn thing managed to pull up on one engine and come around and catch the wire... tough old smoky noisy bird...

[Oztrich Boy]

has left it with a reputation of being a clumsy bruiser reliant on brute engine power and obsolete weapons technology.

No. That's fair.

[Mr Rogers]

Actually, flown right, it could beat an F-5 in a dogfight, and hold its own against F-15s in intercepts to dogfights. The weapons used were not too obsolete, although very few received Aim-9Ls before going out of the USAF inventory. Pity, because the Lima would have improved its ability to dogfight.

As a WSO, it helped to go against the F-15s using the long-pulse mode of the radar and refusing to lock on unless you had a valid shot ready with an Aim-7. The smokeless engines introduced in the mid-80s also helped. In truth, I passed my intercept checkride by directing the intercept off of the smoke trail of the “bad guy” - 20 miles away!

You actually had one good turn in the F-4, but then the energy bled off - so you needed to plan a turning fight as ‘turn & run’, repeat as needed.

One of the real joys of my career was being a young Lt when we still had O-5s & O-6s from Vietnam. A night debrief would be filled with beer and cigar smoke, cussing and telling stories and debating how to do X better. Those are some of my fondest memories of my 25 years in...

[Professional Engineer]

LMAO

Yep, Q#$Q#%$#$%@#$% pissed fuel all over the ramp every stinking time you hooked a fuel nozzle to it.

[Rockpile]

Mr .McDonnell and his engineers wanted to put guns om the F4
from the beginning but the Navy brass refused and insisted that
guns were obsolete and that missiles were the future.

F8 Crusaders had the better early record vs. the MiGs.

[alfa6]

Good Evening P.E.

As a kid growing up in the North St. Louis area just 3.8 miles from the end of runway 24 at Lambert Field I got to see my fair share of Mr. Mac's products.

In 6th grade one of my friends dad was an Air Force pilot at Macdonnell Aircraft. He came to class one day with a couple of 16mm movies of the Phantom. One of the films was about some of the records the F-4 had set and the other showed a lot of air to ground ordnance work. Imagine showing something like that in a public school these days :-)

A lot of descriptions of the Phabulous Phantonbut the best one I recall was it looked like it had gotten halfway out of the hanger and some had closed the door on it!

I have to call it a nite soon so good one to you and yours

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[equaviator]

The alert facility that was just E of Runway 19 at the N end was torn down in 2009. It was a Cold War relic. 2017 is their 100th anniversary. Open House & Airshow, weather permitting, of course.

[PJammers]

When you parked them for the night you would hook these 55 gallon fuel tanks to the dump masts. The AGE guys would round them up and use the fuel in the -60’s. If you didn’t hook them up you would have a fuel pond running down the flight line by morning.

They would be an environmental nightmare today.

[ODC-GIRL]

Yes, it was quite the dump. It took several months to get it usable after 9-11 as it was already slated for demolition. The paint was peeling so badly!

I will be at the airshow and for the first time in a long time will not be working a booth, so I will get to enjoy myself. Working on a 191st Six Pack Reunion sometime during that summer too, maybe even during the airshow.

[equaviator]

I think it will again be free admission. The big party on the Friday night before should be a real wing-ding!