Posted on 04/02/2016 8:31:40 AM PDT by samtheman
Tesla Motors Inc.’s unveiling of its new electric vehicle yesterday had the marks of an iPhone release—long lines of enthusiastic consumers, a glossy product and a CEO presenting in a simple black shirt.
Little new information came out about the Model 3, but with the car’s comparably more affordable $35,000 price tag and 215-mile range, Tesla is making a bid to become a mass-market auto manufacturer.
(Excerpt) Read more at scientificamerican.com ...
The 215 mile range will be 35 miles after cold or hilly terrain is factored in.
That cost to plug it in at home overnight wont even be noticeable.
That’s correct. Put on the AC or the heater, play the radio and so forth. What a pathetic joke on the taxpayers who have “granted” much of this foolish endeavor.
“...$7500 Fed rebate...” That is money stolen from the taxpayers to help fund this bad-engineering lunacy. To top it off, I bet this elon guy gives lots of money to DIMs & LIBs.
Also ask an electric car owner how happy they are when they have to replace the battery.
Naturally. Politicians wouldn't pass laws giving subsidies without getting something in return.
First off, the Model 3 is a 65 KWH battery, so $8.13 for a full charge. If you have a 50 mile round trip commute, that would be about 1/4 of that, or around $2/day - for a massive total of $60 per month.
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My vw diesel uses 20 dollars a week and travels 350 to 400 per week winter and summer.
Great! That means you're only spending about 25% more than it would cost with a model 3...at today's low fuel prices I should add... (My figure was also for 350 miles/week, at $14...)
“There is no savings to an electric car except that that comes out of the pockets of other taxpayers.”
At the moment, that may be true...or not. We’ll see what the calculus is when gas is back to $4/gal.
“What happens if the gaia worshippers get their dream of all vehicles being electric? Where doe the infrastructure come from for all the charging stations?”
Almost all charging is done in people’s own garages...
“Not everyone lives in a house where they can plug them in, what about all the extra electrical capacity?”
You’re referring to all the prospective homeless EV buyers...?
The other salient point is that most charging is done at night, when (wait for it) there is plenty of excess capacity on the grid.
“BFD a vehicle that can go from 0-60 in less than six seconds, where are you going to do it? here in California you can’t even get people to do the speed limit and the roads are packed.”
I’m sure you’re not speaking for the entire state, just your little corner. Sorry you live in that hellhole, you have my sympathy.
(BTW just as a side note, acceleration and speed are two different things...)
That still leaves 49 potentially better states in which to relocate...like my stomping grounds. :-)
At 10K to 15 less per car, Works for me...
You are expecting power prices to stay low?
“You are expecting power prices to stay low?”
In a sane world, electricity prices should drop at least adjusted for inflation.
As the last eight or so years have taught us, it’s not always a sane world though. That said, I’m pretty sure gas prices will increase quite a bit faster than will electricity prices going forward.
You’re referring to all the prospective homeless EV buyers...?
Ah, what a wit, well half of one any way. I guess you never travel to anywhere that people, quite a few since you haven't noticed, live in these dwellings called apartments, where they don't have garages or the right to rewire or run long extension cords to their cars.
(BTW just as a side note, acceleration and speed are two different things...)
Really, well first the confusion seems to be on your part since I stated that rapid acceleration was useless since there was so much congestion from people not driving the speed limit so your little side note does nothing to change the fact that the need for such rapid acceleration is kind of moot. Where I live there are Tesla's all over and not one that I have seen has accelerated anywhere faster than Civic, despite having that great capability.
The other salient point is that most charging is done at night, when (wait for it) there is plenty of excess capacity on the grid.
Interesting, so than a car with a 215 mile range is pretty much useless for long trips, because if there are a great many of them they should be used at night so that their charging doesn't overtax the grid? So I still need a gas powered car if I actually want to travel somewhere? Seems pretty extravagant to spend 35K for a second car just to drive local, especially when it's carbon footprint is at least as big if not bigger than a gas powered car. Thank you but I don't require your sympathy any more than I do your poor attempts at humor or at least it's humor in your mind . The gas powered automobile will be around for quite a while, I'm sure, at least until they invent the Mr. Fusion add on.
You are welcome to your opinion and all the electric cars you want to buy, as long as they are not subsidized with my tax dollars.
Yeah that's still an issue, hopefully they'll get better & less expensive. I'm hoping the hydrogen car can be perfected and we can use water to fill up with, but I don't think "they" would ever let that hit the road...
Battery life has been better than expected in some early hybrids, the ability to hold a charge decreases over time but outright failure or diminished capacity to the point of being unusable has not been all that common. Generally speaking, the car itself is ready for the junk heap by the time the batteries are shot. Whether or not this has any bearing on a pure electric vehicle or not might be another matter, since range depletion is an issue there whereas it’s not for a hybrid.
The car is kinda dull looking. Just what the gov’t wants in a car.
First of all, the level of depletion does not matter - all that matters is how many kwh it takes to move the car every day, and how that cost compares to a gasoline powered car.
In my example, I used my car that gets 29 mpg. I could also very easily back calculate what mileage I would need to get with a gas car, to match a Tesla - and that number is 39 mpg, a mileage that many cars today achieve.
That means that my cost would be exactly the same, either a 39 mpg car or a Tesla. Would you notice the cost of putting gas in the car? Well, plugging in a Tesla would cost exactly the same amount - and you should notice.
I have no idea how far you drive every day, but your 10% depletion estimate would be 22 miles, for a car that gets 215 miles per charge. For a Model S, using 38 kwh per 100 miles, at 12 cents a kwh, that’s $30.51 per month.
I did a little rounding to get to the 39 mpg number...so to drive that same 22 miles a day in a car getting 39 mpg, at $1.76 a gallon, would cost $30.19...a little less, again due to rounding.
But we can call them the same.
Why didn’t you notice your new fridge? I have no idea - maybe you use very little energy and your energy charge is a small percentage of the bill when compared to the customer charge, maybe the new fridge replaced an old one - and new efficiencies made the energy use a wash.
I don’t know what constitutes a ‘commercial’ fridge, but a home fridge/freezer setup should use 205 kwh per month, or cost around $25. I expect a commercial version would use at least 50% more, or cost around $40 a month. Did you get rid of an old fridge? Or perhaps the addition of a new fridge did not change the number of ‘door openings’ total - but rather split them between two fridges.
Back to the Tesla - will it save you money? I think the home charger costs around $3k, so the total price tag is $38k. If you were in the market for a gasoline car that costs $38k, and that car got less than 39 mpg, the Tesla would save you money. But, its likely if saving money is a concern for you, you probably are not in the market for a $38k automobile...and at this point, I would not bump up my budget price point, just to buy a Tesla, in hopes that it will cost less to operate over the long term. This is because I have no idea what it will cost to operate over the long term. And, bumping up the price point also increases taxes and insurance rates, and diminish any cost savings from fuel source.
Yeah, a genius at getting rich off of taxpayer money, which is what it takes nowadays.
Factor in the cost of a car in the first place. That $35,000 car will give me the same functionality of a gas car for about $10,000 more, not including the taxpayer rebate. Even factoring in greater gas cost, though the increase in electrical costs isn’t being factored as more people buy electrical cars, that $2/day greater costs is about 5,000 days of driving before the gas car starts to become more expensive to drive.
That’s almost 15 years of driving. It’s even greater when you count how cheap a quality used car is.
Half at a minimum, indeed.
"I guess you never travel to anywhere that people, quite a few since you haven't noticed, live in these dwellings called apartments, where they don't have garages or the right to rewire or run long extension cords to their cars."
I'm guessing that not many apartment dwellers would prioritize a $35K car ahead of a house, but what do I know?
If electric vehicles become that popular, I expect accommodations will be made. That's the kind of thing that might differentiate upscale apartments from the plebeian.
"Really, well first the confusion seems to be on your part since I stated that rapid acceleration was useless since there was so much congestion from people not driving the speed limit so your little side note does nothing to change the fact that the need for such rapid acceleration is kind of moot. "
One might want to accelerate rapidly even to 30 MPH, correct? Especially with such problematic and dense traffic...
"Where I live there are Tesla's all over and not one that I have seen has accelerated anywhere faster than Civic, despite having that great capability."
I'm impressed that you devote so much time to observing Tesla behavior. :-)
"Interesting, so than a car with a 215 mile range is pretty much useless for long trips, "
Focus...focus...OK. First of all, they are not "useless" for long trips, but one would have to plan for charging along the way.
"because if there are a great many of them they should be used at night so that their charging doesn't overtax the grid?"
First, they should (on average) mostly be charged at night so they don't overtax the grid locally.
Second, the grid will evolve as demand for electricity increases, just has it has historically.
"So I still need a gas powered car if I actually want to travel somewhere? Seems pretty extravagant to spend 35K for a second car just to drive local, especially when it's carbon footprint is at least as big if not bigger than a gas powered car."
It seems extravagant for families to have more than one car? Many families have one vehicle mainly aimed at commuting.
"Thank you but I don't require your sympathy any more than I do your poor attempts at humor or at least it's humor in your mind ."
You're welcome, but I think you do require sympathy. Here's some more!
Seriously, why not move somewhere better? :-D
"The gas powered automobile will be around for quite a while, I'm sure, at least until they invent the Mr. Fusion add on."
I don't recall making any prognostications regarding gas power...did I?
"You are welcome to your opinion and all the electric cars you want to buy, as long as they are not subsidized with my tax dollars."
I (sadly) have no control over how such vehicles are subsidized. You'll no doubt be happy to know, though, that very few if any Model 3 Teslas will receive the current incentive unless new legislation is passed. It only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles sold per manufacturer, and Tesla will be pretty close to that (if not over) before the first Model 3 ships.
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