Posted on 03/02/2016 6:37:37 AM PST by Citizen Zed
Algebra and Trig are absolutely essential if you want to have any kind of usefulness at all, outside of flipping burgers.
In 25 years as a M.E. working in design and technology positions, I have yet to use one iota of calculus. Now that I am in marketing and development, it is all about margins and percents. Stuff that most high schoolers today would still struggle with.
If I calculate the stress in a structural member using formulas that were derived form calculus, am I using calculus then?
Whereas personal initiative and problem solving were appreciated at the FDIC, I feel like John Galt the railyard worker at Taggart Transcontinental at my current agency.
Yeah, don’t bother with that. Some students are failures, and we wouldn’t want to destroy their self-esteem. Meanwhile, Chinese and Indians learn it all and prove their mastery, leaving Americans behind in the dust.
Teach Americans about LGBT, White Privilege, gay and lezzie studies, and other leftist bull$h!t.
Common Core compounds the problem by deliberately renaming everything, so that it sounds new and improved when it is needlessly complex. The intent is to teach abstract thinking and reasoning skills - but they try to do it to children before that advanced logic starts to develop in the early teens.
These are the same employees who can’t give change if the system goes down.
Hey employers teach your staff to count back change. Don’t leave them so helpless.
“I have three coins. How much money COULD I have? “
Requires knowledge of ALL the coin currency in the world, in circulation and not. (Assuming that this is limited to face value, and not collector’s value.).
Also need tables with currency conversion charts for all of them.
In other words, this is not a math question, and it is stupid to ask it.
Geometry sucked and was the only class I ever flunked in high school.......I got my ass chewed out really good by my parents and my argument that I would never need it proved correct. They owe me an apology.......
1) What do you mean by "advanced math"? The term has no objective meaning.
2) Learning algebra and geometry in high school isn't really about learning algebra and geometry. It's about learning to think precisely and logically. Citizens capable of precise and logical thinking are vital to the success of a Republican form of government.
First it was memorization that was bad and useless.
More recently it is cursive writing.
Now adding and multiplying are enough.
We certainly wouldn’t want to challenge those little brains, now would we?
Then when they get to college, no need for a foreign language - - way tooo hard.
My son was on the state accreditation board for engineers and was constantly complaining that the colleges and universities were reducing the number of credits needed for a degree in engineering. But, hey, what’s really important here is the football anyway (sarc).
Well, it wasn’t fair to ask those German kids what is one-quarter of 60 pounds, when they’ve only known the metric system and don’t know what a pound is.
More interesting than math, and if they stick with it they can read Catullus.
Yes, advanced math -- algebra, geometry and trigonometry -- do teach you to think logically, if you are mathematically inclined, which most people aren't.
If your eyes glaze over in an advanced math class, you're not learning anything. You're just wasting time you could use developing skills that are more relevant to your life. A course in basic finance would be far more useful than a course in trigonometry to most high school students.
There are many other ways to learn to think logically. Taking a philosophy course in symbolic logic is one example. But one can also develop logical thinking skills by learning to analyze written work and write proper expository prose in which one makes critical (not in the modern left wing sense) arguments regarding what one has read.
You can also learn logical thinking by studying music theory, or by learning to debate. Or studying actual science. Learning about law, as I did in a high school course in business law, is also a way to learn to think logically.
I don't think it is logical to conclude that one needs to learn advanced mathematics in order to be able to support and defend a Republican form of government. And I don't doubt that there are plenty of university mathematics professors who voted for Hillary or Bernie in yesterday's primaries.
I'll bet Harvard and MIT are full of them.
Those are great problems that every high school student ought to be able to answer — none of which require algebra, calculus, geometry or trigonometry to perform the needed calculations.
You need to shift everything down a notch or two. Not only do you need to teach economics, you’ll need to teach Civics (which, IIRC, is about as popular as cursive these days):
1. Cite the authorities of Congress, the President and the Courts. List said powers for each.
2. Match each Federal program and department with the previous list of authorities. If no authority exists, explain how said program/department is thus legal/Constitutional.
etc.
Ha! You believe govt indoctrination centers care to TEACH? Let alone ‘higher learning’ and/or abstract math?
Yet, cite your example at your next city council meeting or state rep. The ONLY ‘solution’ out of their mouths, that’s been tried for 40+ yrs, will be “More $$ is needed for XYZ...”.
Returning the (rightful) power back to the People is like pulling hens teeth. Even locally, see the hurdles placed on home-schoolers, or (shudder) vouchers.
All good comments. As a former math teacher I believe I understand the reason for the various classes in math. Algebra because of its universality and logic
Geometry, which seems to be a determiner of spacial thinking but also a gate way class to higher math
Trig, adv algebra, and even calculus are specialty classes that should only be taken by people with an interest in the subject. The same goes for higher levels of algebra, set theory, and statistics. However each of these have their uses.
The question as to whether the classes should all be part of a basic education is clear, only some people need to pursue all the different levels of math. (Certainly if you plan to teach math, you need them)
As an EE I used them but only sparingly. They were more important if you wanted to learn the theory of how electronic devices get the job done.
I agree that a good teacher makes students want to learn and especially want to take additional courses in a field. Math should be required at a low level and optional after that. Teachers should be as good as they can be because our education system sucks big time and I blame the teacher’s union for most of this. We certainly made a mistake when we decided that trade school subjects should be left out of high school, they should be part of the optional program.
Oh, and I would like to have my three coins from the wreak of some gold bearing ships in the Monex commercials (the rarer the better).
I’m guessing Hacker didn’t take any math after high school algebra. He wants an America with lots of college graduates with “studies” degrees. Well the cash register at Starbucks, programmed by Asian kids, will be able to calculate change for them as they perform the only job they are qualified for.
Painting w/ too broad of a brush, I’d say.
Not ALL jobs require higher sciences. Not everyone wants, nor can, become a NASA engineer.
Yet, most seem to think a one-size-fits-all model works ‘here’. Very Socialist thinking in that regard. Do we all develop at the same rate/pace? We’re all so ‘inclined’ to excel...let alone CARE?
Hell, it took me DAYS, after school with the math teacher, before she was able to convey the topic in SUCH a way that it ‘clicked’ to me.
IMO, education should develop that which exists naturally to the student. Yes, the ‘basics’ should be touched upon, but not drilled.
Even if one has a knack or inclination, should we be pushing them in that direction? If their passion is music, or cars, or...Is it ‘better for the Republic’ to dictate their future endeavor? Or, should we, like parents, only hope to guide and affirm that which would make THEIR live enjoyable...Republic be damned?
I was also involved in GPS which is all about Linear Algebra, a class I had to drop due to conflict Calc 3, Discrete Math and a full time job.
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