Posted on 09/01/2015 12:46:36 PM PDT by ExyZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=any4cI6nAf8&index=1&list=PLPnLjoW07bV0zxAVQcjXZoHLibjuRoZas
The Waco shootout at a Twin Peaks restaurant flooded with bikers from clubs such as the Cossacks, the Bandidos, and many more is explained with witness, Richard Luther. Luther’s experience as a Cossack, the shootout, thoughts on a possible conspiracy, and the 33 days he would go on to spend in jail after the shootout is explored. Learn the ugly truth about the police handling of the situation, the cruel and unusual punishment that bikers suffered in jail, and the pieces of the puzzle that don’t add up, in this Antidote interview hosted by Michael Parker.
Do you get paid by the post or by the word?
“You never did answer my question.
Do you get paid by the post or by the word? “
We have been through this before. Go back to the archives for my response.
Sorry, I’m busy carrying on an intelligent conversation on a couple of other threads. Besides, I’d have to read so much of your repetitive dreck just to find the one post (should it exist), it’d be a real bore.
“When you reply to a post, the number of the post you reply to is in the set of links at the bottom of your reply.
I was having a conversation with another poster, which did not directly apply to what don had posted. “
LOL!
I replied directly to a statement you made in that post WHICH was OFF your topic of treatment of the wounded.
Don’t toss at me for being off-topic when I was responding to your OFF-topic post.
“I’d have to read so much “
Ever heard of Google?
And clearly the AP reporter doesn’t have access to TCIC or NCIC or similar restricted sources, and neither do you, unless your are working the case.
So what’s your point? You and I both know it would take an impossible number of hours and expense for a reporter to perform even a half-assed serious background on 177 persons, many with comon names, across 254 counties.
You are also aware that many Texas counties did not reliably report criminal history convictions, particularly before the last 15-20 years. And then there are data entry errors. And, if you don’t compare fingerprints to a CH file, all that you really have is a possibilty. And in some counties, it was regular practice to destroy criminal and civil case files after a certain number of years, and so, if the convictions were never reported, they are likely forever disappeared.
But enough of that mumbo-jumbo.
The point others are trying to make, and you are quite well aware of this, is that it is remarkable, no matter how you parse it, the number of bikers that don’t have any identifiable criminal history on “public records” databases, (most of which rely on DPS as their primary source) and thus who likely don’t have records on restricted governmental databases either...
And that supports my point that some number of these guys, especially in the Cossack sub-club(s), with the low or no barrier to entry, appear to be non-criminal dupes.
And do not forget, there were 75 guys from other clubs who showed up there that day for some sort of meeting who were also apparently duped.
56 of 145 posts on this thread were you, Gator.
Non-stop from:
22 posted on 9/2/2015, 10:00:21 AM by TexasGator
145 posted on 9/2/2015, 10:46:11 PM by TexasGator
138 posted on 9/2/2015, 8:50:26 AM by TexasGator
And you started on the thread immediately before at 8:50 a.m.
Yeah, I have. I googled “wanker” and your picture was there, Crawford. Were you working at TMI in ‘79?
The point is that its meaningless to keep harping on the supposed lack of criminal records for these guys.
This subject has been debated from every angle numerous times on numerous thread going back for months...mostly because a couple of nut-riders keep puking it back up.
You've been a member here for going on two weeks...do some homework!
Uhhh... sorta... without all the psycho-babble.
It’s a misrepresentation even if you check their source.
The original source said 1/3 had convictions in Texas.... NOT arrests, and NOT anything about convictions in other states.
So Finny has mangled the claim even if it had some basis in truth to begin with. For all we know, the other 2/3 could have convictions in other states or pending criminal cases from previous arrests.
Plus the Bandidos specifically recruit people with clean records anyway, so this doesn’t mean much!
“And that supports my point that some number of these guys, especially in the Cossack sub-club(s), with the low or no barrier to entry, appear to be non-criminal dupes.”
You don’t get “duped” into joining an outlaw gang. You’ve got to prospect to get in, it can take months or even years before they trust you, and they will make you commit crimes to prove yourself.
That is, unless the Cossacks were not operating like all the rest of the Outlaw gangs and were more like a “wannabe” operation. I suppose that is a possibility, but the Bandidos seemed to treat them as a threat so I doubt it.
“his ACTIONS indicate that the difference between them flies right over his head and that in his world, they are equally guilty.”
What actions? You’re the one who is here equating the criminals with ALL bikers by attacking those of us who are pointing out these guys were criminals and not regular bikers.
You’ve said before you have relatives who ride, so it seems obvious to me they must be outlaw bikers if you are covering for those types so hard.
In my experience, seals, rangers, spec forces, etc do not have any interest in hanging around career criminals.
I dunno, we have plenty around here on FR, maybe they can chime in and tell us what they think? Would they join a criminal biker gang?
258 arrested ... Operation Hogtrap
That is because some here intentionally misrepresent non-criminal clubs as gangs to further an agenda. And quite frankly, I don’t really give a rat’s behind one way or the other, outside the fact I hate to see scores of people’s rights violated, and the human toll that extends far beyond.
On the date of the incident only the Bandidos were designated by DPS as a criminal gang. And that is still true, is it not?
As far as the Cossacks and their sub-clubs, it’s pretty clear some, like Clendennen (and I use him as an example simply because he is one of the few we know anything about), seem clueless, and uninvolved in any criminal aspect or intent.
And short of an email, text message or recorded phone call or other compelling evidencing individual “Clendennens” in this mess were knowing participants, I’m willing to not see their and their families’ lives utterly destroyed over a simple stupid decision to play dress up in a vest, and go have beers with their buddies on the weekends.
Some here seem to pass it off as collateral damage. Some seem to delight in the destruction.
A few beers ... You left out the gunfight and murders
“That is because some here intentionally misrepresent non-criminal clubs as gangs to further an agenda.”
Which “non-criminal clubs”? And what could be the agenda?
I haven’t seen any of that, but I have seen plenty of the opposite, people claiming that all the outlaw bikers there that day were just “vets” or “Christian bikers”, etc. Well Vet clubs and Christian clubs don’t wear 1% patches and act like outlaw clubs. I’m not sure why some posters constantly pretend that these criminals are just regular bikers, but seems like there is an agenda there for sure.
“As far as the Cossacks and their sub-clubs, it’s pretty clear some, like Clendennen (and I use him as an example simply because he is one of the few we know anything about), seem clueless, and uninvolved in any criminal aspect or intent.”
I don’t know, people accused of crimes act clueless all the time. Seems silly to judge anything based on that.
“And short of an email, text message or recorded phone call or other compelling evidencing individual “Clendennens” in this mess were knowing participants....”
Well, we’re not even at the point where that type of evidence is normally disclosed. Everyone wants to rush to judge the cops guilty before due process even begins to play out. I’m all for reigning in the cops if they are guilty, but to assume the cops are the ones in the wrong here, when we KNOW the guys arrested are, at least for the vast majority, members of organized crime groups, seems quite foolish.
“On the date of the incident only the Bandidos were designated by DPS as a criminal gang. And that is still true, is it not?”
I don’t really get the point of this argument either. It isn’t as if DPS creates criminal gangs. They must exist (and grow to some size and level of activity) before DPS gathers enough intel to designate them. So just because a group isn’t listed yet does nothing to prove they aren’t a criminal operation.
In the case of the Cossacks, I go by the “looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck” rule. They dress like outlaw bikers, they associate with outlaw bikers, and they get in gang wars with outlaw bikers. If someone can explain to me a sensible reason why a club that wasn’t criminal would do that, I’d love to hear it.
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