Posted on 05/11/2015 8:16:19 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd
Submission to Governing Authorities
Romans 13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
I think it’s pretty clear that we are talking about authorities that are God fearing and intend to do God’s will.
“for they are keeping watch over your souls,”
Certainly not the leaders in the US government including 0bama.
“those that exist have been instituted by God.”
Ahem, God does not institute evil leaders unless it is via judgment of a nation (Babylon vs Israel). Evil leaders arise from the free choice of wicked citizenry to support evil leaders and the deceptions and wiles of the evil leader.
“to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,”
And what good work did Hitler, 0bama or Stalin authorize?
I think it is so very obvious that following leaders that are infected with and intent on evil is clearly very wrong. God never intended Germans to follow Hitler’s orders to kill Jews. Even secular lawyers at the Nuremburg trials realized that.
That, I think, is the key. The passages in the original post certainly were referring to authorities who were behaving in a righteous manner.
I admit to a certain skepticism about certain Bible passages considering it wasn't set down in written form until several centuries AFTER Christ.AND that the conference that did set the Bible into written form was convened with the assistance and authority of a secular ruler.Looking at the history of earthly kings and the blood they shed to become king causes me to doubt Paul's advice on this obedience. For how can we obey those in authority when their laws are opposed to all we know to be good?
Exactly. God does not intend for us to obey evil rulers who pass evil laws.
I suppose the Jews and a few million others would have been wrong in Paul’s eyes to have rebelled against Hitler and the murderous Nazis because God placed them in authority? NOT buying it.
Similarly the commandment thou shalt not KILL-which some scholars believe(and as most people have always acted) was originally thou shalt not MURDER;else we would be constrained from defending ourselves and our loved ones.Plus the Israelites killed quite a few in gaining the Promised Land.
Isaiah 5:20 — Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Proverbs 17:23 — Corrupt judges accept secret bribes, and then justice is not done.
2 Peter 2:19 — They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
But, here’s something that ought to be asked — If the Constitution is the source of governmental authority in the US, then what authority does a non-Constitutional government? Are we to obey people who jump out yelling “I’m the authority!”? — This is to say, are all positions that claim authority actually authority?
Back when the King James bible was Authorized Kill and Murder were essentially synonyms, and this remains even today as one of the definitions of Kill is "to murder" and seen in phrases like "there's a killer on the loose!" (if it were someone who merely ended some life like, say, a hunter that sort of warning would be seen as inappropriate).
prepare 4 L8R
dont pass this article to obama....... he already thinks he is Gods gift to man
So, I guess St. Paul's message was: "Obey the government - except when you feel that you shouldn't."
And what good work did Hitler, 0bama or Stalin authorize?
Well, Hitler built the Autobahn - and he attacked the Soviet Union.
Regards,
My personal hero, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, seemed to know how to rightly divide these verses.
“So, I guess St. Paul’s message was: “Obey the government - except when you feel that you shouldn’t.” ‘
It’s not about feelings, it’s about God’s word which you can find in the Bible. The Ten commandments states ‘thou shall not kill” so Germans that killed innocents and followed the government’s commands are to be convicted by God for failing to obey this commandment. I hope you can see the difference between Hitler or his minions ordering someone to send a letter (not knowing contents) and Hitler and his minions ordering someone to the gas chambers.
I hope that you can find many things in the Bible that clearly demonstrate that the government is opposing God’s will.
What would you do if you were a pastor ordered to perform a homosexual marriage? What would you do if you were a doctor in a Christian hospital ordered to perform an abortion?
These things will happen soon, don’t fall into Satan’s trap.
I also like the follow up arguement where they tell Christians they are hypocrites for being willing to stand up and meet force with force, instead of "turning the other cheek" and such. Being a Christian is not a suicide pact. The Bible is repleat with examples of God's people protecting themselves and defeating evil through force. The big discernment for Christians is knowing when to accept our fates as martyrs, persecuted for our faith, and when to stand and protect ourselves and the weak with the sword.
“The State is empowered ONLY to punish those who violate the Second Table of the Law.” - NO KING BUT JESUS: Romans 13 and the Perfect Law of Liberty (http://web.archive.org/web/20071015041700/http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ad0b80b3a17.htm)
How?
Uhh, not exactly. This was written to Christians who were under the rule of either Calugula or Nero, not sure which.
Neither of them shining lights of righteousness or God-fearing rulers.
Sorry, that should have been Claudius, not Caligula.
Sorry, but the government Paul was specifically talking about was the Roman Empire. You know, based on slavery and conquest. #1 spectator sport organized murder. They had killed Christ himself and would eventually murder most of the apostles, including Paul.
That was the government he instructed them to obey.
C’mon.
Caesar is not above God. So if Caesar says build a road, send a dispatch fine. But if Caesar says kill a Christian or worship Caesar as God, no.
Now, if we get into a situation where the leader is clearly evil, we do have a duty to resist evil wherever we can.
You don’t see this? Would you follow Hitler’s orders or 0bama’s orders if they opposed the 10 commandments or God’s word?
Don’t follow into Satan’s trap.
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