Posted on 03/26/2015 8:07:40 AM PDT by rickmichaels
In his Saturday column Conrad Black inveighed against “militant atheists”. He called them “shabby” and “shallow”. He attacked their “gratuitous disparagements of Christianity”. I’m not sure who set Black off this time. To be sure there is a species of self satisfied nose-tweakers on the atheist lecture and debating circuit but frankly militant atheism is just so passé. The fastest growing religious identity in the world is the new atheist. We really just don’t care.
Black and others have insisted non belief is a faith in and of itself. I can’t speak for all non believers but I have neither a holy book nor hymnal. I observe no special holidays and attend no services. My atheism is simply an absence of religion in my life. Outside of leaving me a few hours to myself on Sunday mornings this absence is not some kind of void that must be filled with something else.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.nationalpost.com ...
I’m not taking away the ability to decide how to think. I’m pointing out that often times how we decide to think (like when I was born again) and how we wind up thinking (like when I stopped going to church 3 months later) are at odds. We know there’s a lot of biological/ genetic components in behavior. Those basic differences between men and women show that.
And I’m definitely not excusing aberrant behavior. Just because one’s biological makeup is at odds with who they want to be is no reason to be an @!#$&*. These folks need to figure out who they are and deal with it in a way that doesn’t need to tear down others.
My weapon of choice is the BGM-109.
No it’s not. The future of atheism is learning to live with each other. In the same way the various sects of Christianity figured it out.
I’m not fighting against a belief. I know Muslims, perfectly fine people who can go on at length about how Islamic terrorists violate basic tenants of the religion. They’ve got a lunatic fringe emphasis on the lunatic, and it’s exacerbated by the fact that a lot of the countries they’re from have a vested interest in keeping them riled up and pointed externally. You like to point to the rise of Hitler, well that’s actually a good comparison when it comes to Islam. Germans as a whole weren’t nuts, just enough of them to take over the government, control the flow of information, and keep the not nuts ones at least ignorant.
And it’s not like atheists don’t have beliefs. We just don’t have RELIGIOUS beliefs. I believe in small governments, low taxes, and if you’d expect to get punched in the face for saying that to them in person you probably shouldn’t say it to them online either.
I accept something when there is evidence to support it's existence. To that end, I don't believe in Norse mythology, or Hindu mythology or Greek mythology or African Juju. When the Jehovah's Witnesses show up at my door, I don't follow them down to Kingdom Hall. I don't think that disease is cause by witches or evil spirits. There is a very very long list of things I don't believe based on a lack of evidence.
To be religious requires faith. To assert the null hypothesis of a true atheist requires much more faith. The rational position of those without faith is agnosticism.
Most atheists if faced with the illogic of asserting that absence of evidence is evidence of absence will accept agnosticism, an open but doubting mind, instead of their faith.
Rational being the operative word.
Once rational, then the journey can begin.
We hear all the time about people that were raised in very Christian families that left Christ. Sadly, I think many of these families were not either prepared or willing to teach their kids anything more than, “Because the Bible says so”.
A great disservice for their children and has also led others to view all Christians as only having an authoritative claim. I do believe this is getting better.
The “just doesn’t care” mindset would lead me to think that they are actually Agnostic. Indifferent and can’t be bothered to explore or are afraid of what they might find.
I find this indifference to be both a good and bad thing. Good, because at some point in their life they should be open to the possibilities of God’s existence and if they are sincere and honest in their search they will find God. Bad, because in the meantime their indifference is allowing for the continued moral decay of our society.
There are clearly social conservatives that claim Atheism or being Agnostic, they are here on FR. And while their Conservatism doesn’t contribute to the moral decay their sense of morality has a foundation that doesn’t exist among the honest atheist. The honest atheist must admit that there is NO foundation for morality, that morality is an evolved condition and is therefore subjective. In addition, the question or existence of free-will is something the honest atheist rejects. These are positions that have been advanced for a number of years by the leaders of the so-called new Atheist crowd.
I would humbly offer this as a counter-point: What you say is true - we do lack hard, empirical evidence. But that doesn't mean we are left without clues - or reason. And as I've mentioned previously, the clues (as I see them) rule out chance as a reasonable answer to the questions of our origins.
Which begs the question: if there is a Designer, why would He not leave hard, empirical evidence? For many, the answer is unsatisfactory - because the answer deals with the metaphysical.
But what can you do? the Designer gets to make the rules; and we can deal with the reality of those rules - or to our detriment - fight them...
That is a understated fact.....lol
I think your grasp of the characteristics of human nature is too shallow. I think you need a deeper understanding of what is going on.
Atheism exists because Christianity tamed the baser human instincts to the point where Atheism could exist. The Irony is that Atheists are floating in an Ocean of Christianity, the absence of which will result in a very different social structure, and one which will have no tolerance for Atheists. (Or much of anything else for that matter.)
And it’s not like atheists don’t have beliefs. We just don’t have RELIGIOUS beliefs. I believe in small governments, low taxes, and if you’d expect to get punched in the face for saying that to them in person you probably shouldn’t say it to them online either.
I'm not suggesting you need to have religious beliefs. I'm asserting that our society needs to have religious beliefs. If the foundation of our moral system is disrupted, it is just going to turn ugly.
I have no problems with Atheists. I have problems with Atheists that want to evangelize about Atheism. Convincing everyone that there is no God will only unleash the forces currently held at bay as the result of the widespread belief that there is.
Thomas Jefferson said:
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
The Rebuttal to this is:
"Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck."
And that's what I think too. Modern Atheists are only moral because they grew up in an Ocean of Christianity. If people grow up in an Ocean of Atheism, from whence will come the belief that we should love one another?
Atheists promote the scientific method for dealing with humanity, and when this played out before, we got Eugenics.
I'd rather have some irrational superstition keeping people under some semblance of control, than a scientifically induced clinical detachment allowing their inner Nazi to emerge.
No. Atheism exists because some people just aren’t into religion. Plenty of non-Christian religions have established rules for folks to live by. Plus there’s the social contract. Lots of ways to tame base human instinct. And of course in the end it’s still the PEOPLE that tame the instinct, their religion might give them some ground work, but one cruise through the televangelist hall of shame shows there’s plenty of religious people that are completely untamed.
I don’t think society does need to have religious beliefs. Again, there’s plenty of place to ground or moral system that don’t have anything to do with religion. Simple common sense does it for most folks.
I’m not evangelizing. Like I said, don’t care what you believe so long as it’s not interfering with my reality.
I’ve never bought that rebuttal. Frankly I actually find kind of scary. Basically people who use that are saying that if they ever had a crisis in faith they’d become lawless sociopaths. Do you really think your belief in God is the only thing that keeps you from stealing and murdering? I mean really, insisting people (which includes you) could not be moral without their belief in God is kind of disturbing.
No. The scientific method does NOT result in eugenics. Eugenicists use it as an excuse, but they’re lying to themselves. Somebody ACTUALLY applying the scientific method to masses of people wouldn’t tamper with it, because they understand that the only way to figure out which group of people are “better” is to let things run their course. Sure we can look at that mass and THINK we know which group is better, but we could be wrong, and if we act on that and we are wrong we’re just damaging the whole. And the scientific method tells us that if that group really is better they’ll come out on top without us screwing with things.
If irrational superstitions are the only things keeping people under control, they aren’t actually under control. Actually the Nazis were VERY superstitious. They’re a fine shining example of how religion doesn’t guarantee morality.
Curious - can you point to a successful, functioning society where atheism was the norm?
I think you have your dates mixed up. Hitler took the Sudetenland in 1938. He had been in power for five years already.
Nazism and Soviet Communism WERE religions. There was an orthodoxy and there were consequences for those who didn’t adhere to it. These particular religions just didn’t have a theology.
Most of Europe is mostly atheist at this point and not generally more screwed up than us. Possibly even us. Sure in our current mode everybody that runs for public office needs to claim some sort of religion, but how many of them really practice it. And a serious chunk of our population is atheist, with just as large a percentage being what I call “yeah sure Christians”, that’s people that say they’re Christians but can’t remember the last time they actually did anything that actually relates to Christianity (go to church, read the Bible, pray).
And more will come, it’s really only relatively recently that some societies have evolved to the point where someone could actually publicly declare they are atheists, as the populace gets more comfortable with people that don’t participate in religion then we’ll have more countries that are basically atheist. Of course it’ll help if the militant atheist would STFU. But that too will come as everybody mellows on the situation.
I don’t think society does need to have religious beliefs. Again, there’s plenty of place to ground or moral system that don’t have anything to do with religion. Simple common sense does it for most folks.
Where does your “common sense” come from?
Is it Objective or Subjective?
Is it “Nature” or “Nurture”?
There is no “Social contract” that isn’t bound by objective morality. A morality that evolutionist’s reject as they must as it conflicts with their theories.
Could be this or could be that, but it IS THIS and it ISN’T THAT.
No matter how hard you and they try.
And Nazis love religious iconography and relics. While they didn’t necessarily believe in the theology behind them they still wanted them and generally assumed there was something useful about them.
And Nazis love religious iconography and relics. While they didn’t necessarily believe in the theology behind them they still wanted them and generally assumed there was something useful about them
Propaganda.
Get real.
Hitler privately detested the Catholic Church. He saw the Pope as a competitor.
It comes from common sense. Life just tends to be easier if you follow the basic moral rules. You’ve got less to hide, you’ve got better friends, you face fewer consequences, you function better in society which makes society more useful to you.
If you look at Western history and how morality has changed over the course of it even supposedly God based morality is demonstrably NOT objective. We’re constantly tweaking things, even on what would seem to be the clear and easy ones like murder we’re always expanding or contracting the definition (usually expanding, which is probably a good thing). We’re a subjective species, we’ve been gifted with the ability to rationalize, which brings with it the ability to say “well that’s not really murder”.
I am real. That’s not propaganda. Sorry the facts don’t work for you.
Why is it that religious iconography was and can be soo effective?
Are people really that stupid?
Maybe.
Except for the people that promoted it, of course.
They were better, smarter more evolved than the rest.
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