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Vanity - I started reading "Dune" by Frank Herbert last night

Posted on 02/02/2015 3:27:28 PM PST by Perdogg

I apologize for the vanity, but I know that FR is a community of avid readers. Last year, I read "The Hobbit", "The Lord of The Rings" and "The Silmarillion".

I read that Arthur C Clarke referred to "Dune" as 'The Lord of the Rings' of Science Fiction.

What are Freepers opinion of Dune (the book not the movie) and should I continue with the sequels? I saw the film 30 years ago, I remember receiving a sheet with a primmer at the movie theatre after buying a ticket.

also, is there a Gothic horror equivalent to "Dune" of "Lord of the Rings"?


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: dune; frankherbert; thespicemustflow
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To: taxcontrol; Perdogg

Yeah, I would say HP Lovecraft is the equivalent to horror that Tolkien is to fantasy and Herbert is to sci fi. He has his own little world of interconnected stories and a persistent mythos that he even allowed other authors to build on.

He wrote a lot of short fiction though, but he did a few novels as well. I think “The Dunwich Horror” or “At The Mountains of Madness” are probably the better of his novels, if you want an introduction to his style.


61 posted on 02/02/2015 3:57:20 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Perdogg
Dune is notable for and sometimes difficult to follow due to its complicated, sprawling story, with a large number of characters, multiple story lines, shifts in narrative perspective, and lack of clarity on many points. The power of Dune is that the effect is to draw one deeply into the story, making for an immersive experience.

Thus Dune is a grown up kind of science fiction, complicated in ways that are uncommon for the genre. For me, the sequels were inferior.

62 posted on 02/02/2015 3:57:36 PM PST by Rockingham
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To: Perdogg

Never read the book, but saw all screen adaptations. Loved it.

BTW, you actually got through the Silmarillion?


63 posted on 02/02/2015 3:59:34 PM PST by mkleesma (`Call to me, and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.')
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To: ez
I read science fiction voraciously in my youth but it’s now been 30 years since I read those books and my memory dims. I would like to reread some of them when I retire. Dune is one that I would choose to reread. Along with Ringworld, Rendevous with Rama, and the Dragonriders of Pern series.

That could easily have been my post. Just add the Foundation series. Every single one.
64 posted on 02/02/2015 3:59:43 PM PST by wbarmy (I chose to be a sheepdog once I saw what happens to the sheep.)
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To: Perdogg

I am also reading Dune now, for the third or fourth time. It is definitely my favorite Sci-Fi book and one of the best novels I have ever read of any genre. None of films do it justice. I read the sequels years ago but as I recall, they were not as good as the first book.


65 posted on 02/02/2015 4:00:05 PM PST by Busywhiskers ("Once you have wrestled, everything else in life is easy" -Dan Gable)
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To: Perdogg

You will be tempted to read the sequel. DON’T!
Dune is a really good read but, stop right there. Trust me.


66 posted on 02/02/2015 4:00:19 PM PST by outofsalt ( If history teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything.)
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To: Perdogg
I read the first 3 back in the mid 70s.

First, stop what ever you are doing, right now, and read or reread, PAGE 15.

Get that out of the way.

Fear is the mind killer, the little death.

The first 3 Dune books were amazing but reminded me in many ways of the Azimov Foundation trilogy.

Both stories or series take place in the distant future where the Galaxy has largely been subdued and earth is but a distant unconfirmed place of origin, the stuff of legends.

The Dune series I reread in the 80s because several new books were added to the series.

Only the reader can decide for sure, but I say that beyond the 3rd book, that series diminished fast.

I loved the movie and the Sci Fi Channel remake. Your mileage may vary.

67 posted on 02/02/2015 4:04:03 PM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: Perdogg

Dune ? Good

Dune Messiah? Meh.....just ok.

Children of Dune? Couldn’t finish it


68 posted on 02/02/2015 4:05:18 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: ez

Dragonriders of Pern would be a good re-read and could make a good movie series if kept faithful.


69 posted on 02/02/2015 4:05:21 PM PST by cripplecreek ("For by wise guidance you can wage your war")
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To: wbarmy

:)


70 posted on 02/02/2015 4:06:00 PM PST by ez (RIP America 1776-2014. Long live the oligarchy.)
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To: Perdogg

“Dune” is fantasy, not science fiction.


71 posted on 02/02/2015 4:06:37 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Perdogg

Try E.R. Eddison’s “Ring Ouroboros” and “Fish Dinner in Memison”. He published before Tolkein.


72 posted on 02/02/2015 4:07:19 PM PST by bakeneko
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon
I also like the Neal Stephenson books, but I have been stuck on that 3rd book ‘system of the world’ for months now. I will get it done by
Spring I am certain.

The Cryptonomicron book was one if the coolest books that I have ever read.

73 posted on 02/02/2015 4:09:04 PM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: Perdogg

Dune is an interesting vision of the distant future where a somewhat techno-phobic society has forbidden thinking machines, which almost destroyed humanity about 10,000 in their past.

Monarchies generally rule on some planets, while the ruling structure on other planets (IX, for example) government is indeterminable. The entirety of planets is ruled by an Emperor. Power struggles occur on an inter-planetary level.


74 posted on 02/02/2015 4:09:14 PM PST by Smedley (It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park)
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To: Perdogg

OOps, I meant “Worm Ouroboros”.

Also, look into James Branch Cabell.


75 posted on 02/02/2015 4:09:19 PM PST by bakeneko
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To: Perdogg
Book is better than the movie. (Not hard to do)

When I was in HS, I was in an independent reading class. My preference was always sci-fi. My teacher HIGHLY recommended the book.
Can't say I was overly impressed.
It was Okay. But I couldn't see the rave.

Comes down to one thing.
Your Mileage May Vary.

Read it and make your own decision.

76 posted on 02/02/2015 4:10:04 PM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: Perdogg
I first read it a long time ago, and liked it quite a bit. I read the next few novels in the series, and liked them quite a bit too. Then my interested petered out.

I picked up "Dune" again a couple of years ago and started to re-read it (I often re-read books). I was really struck by what I now perceive as bad writing. As an example:

The Lady Jessica gets quite a build up. She's a member of the Bene Gesserit, highly trained in all political arts, highly trained to read emotion in others, and to control emotion in herself. Her abilities in these areas are almost superhuman.

So, what do we see in the first 20 or so pages? Well, she loses control of herself 3 or 4 times, she underestimates multiple people, and other people consistently see right through her flimsy lies.

Then of course there is Dr Yueh, whose training may be even more intense then her own. Yeah, he is broken and turned into a traitor. That should be impossible. It's about as easy as making a sandwich.

I decided the whole thing was a bit like George Lucas -- really creative guy, found a really great story to tell. Then tells it badly.

77 posted on 02/02/2015 4:11:01 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Malort, turning taste-buds into taste-foes for generations.)
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To: Perdogg

I read all of the Dune books that Frank Herbert wrote, though God Emperor of Dune.
I tried reading three different books his son wrote, the prequels set thousands of years before “Dune”, describing the Butlerian Jihad, foundation of the Bene Gesserit, rise of the first emperor.

All of the books Frank Herbert wrote are good, though the third one is bogged down by detail. Skipping ahead 3000 years with God Emperor of Dune actually becomes interesting. The next books, too, like Chapterhouse are fascinating. Frankly, you could read “Dune”, maybe read the first sequel and skip forward to “God Emperor of Dune” and “Chapterhouse” to skip the drama.

I would advise you to skip the “Dune” prequels by the author’s son. He tries to cram in a lot of petty drama, which falls flat in a series that subtly plotted other thousands of years and the fate of mankind. He made things worse by trying to shoehorn in the origination story of EVERYTHING. It cheapens the broader political movements hinted at in the “cannon” and in some cases even contradicts them. For example, his prequel where Jessica is pregnant with Paul says she was placed there by the Mother Superior after a lot of manipulations, while the original book says the Duke’s buyers picked her. Dude, read the books you’re ripping off and trying to build upon.

As to his sequels intended to carry on the plot from “Chapterhouse: Dune”, it utterly, completely fails. Take characters that are the product of thousands of years of eugenics and brilliant even for an improved human race, and he makes them make incredibly stupid decisions and mistakes that even the reader knows they wouldn’t do - all to amp up the volume and emotion level. Oh, and he brings back the really, really old enemies from his other prequels, especially those from the Butlerian Jihad prequels. Dude, enemies of humanity aren’t going to wait 20,000 years and until people are literally scattered to thousands of worlds to then come back and try to wipe us out. Utterly, completely lazy writing complete with trope-tastic and a horrid disappointment.


78 posted on 02/02/2015 4:15:25 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Perdogg

Interesting. I’m going to read that Neil Stephenson bunch of books mentioned on this thread. I have been reading the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch — a Dr Who author writing books that are a mix of Harry Potter meets NCIS. Also read Shelly Adina’s steampunk Magnificent Devices series.

Thank God for Kindle!


79 posted on 02/02/2015 4:15:48 PM PST by Moonmad27 ("I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." Jessica Rabbit)
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To: naturalman1975
“Dune” challenged me to keep up with the characters as well as the theme...it could get confusing....so I read it again after seeing the movie.

Interesting is how “spice” reminded me much of today's politics of “oil”.....which commerce and military...transportation etc. is dependent on. I watched the movie more than a few times and saw each time something more that aligned with the politics of oil today.....of course I watched with that in mind as well.

I preferred the movie over the read..... easier to keep the characters front and center.

80 posted on 02/02/2015 4:16:25 PM PST by caww
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