Posted on 01/26/2015 8:20:25 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Should you go to law school? The average debt of a 2012 law-school graduate who took out at least one loan was $84,600 for public school and $122,158 for private school.
To determine whether law school is a good investment for you, figure out where you'll end up after graduation. The data offers a clear picture based on which school you attend, and how you rank among your peers.
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Interesting article. Several friends of mine from college went on to law school. The results have been mixed. One went to a very small (tier iv) school but is doing quite well in her legal niche - trademark and intellectual property. But I also have a friend who graduated from another smallish law school who could not get hired on by a decent firm and is currently working a non-legal job for less than 30K a year. In retrospect, he probably could have done better for himself if he’d just gone the paralegal route. Less debt, anyway.
Kagan - Harvard, Princeton, and Oxford
Thomas - Yale
Sotomayor - Princeton and Yale
Alito - Princeton and Yale
Roberts - Harvard
Breyer - Harvard
Ginsburg - Cornell, Harvard, and Columbia
No wonder our supreme courts sucks.
I did a deal a few years back
A big one in my little universe
50k in contract work for the firm I hired
One of the big 5 in Nashville.....250 member firm
We were in one of their conference rooms working late on my deal doing numbers and negotiating points with seller etc....running up legal and CPA tabs
One lawyer was Georgetown law another Vandy and another Virginia or Tulane
What passes for southern Ivy League
I was teasing them about how smart they all were considering I was lowly Ole Miss BA who did take the LSAT in 1979
A young associate piped in he was university of Memphis school of law and he got paid same as they did until any of them made full partner
So there you are....be at the top and of your class and do moot court and law review and you’ll get picked up regardless
If u go to a name school and excel you’ll be the cream but otherwise the schools matter less
Go to Harvard and lead class and Cravath Swain and Moore will pick you up fresh at 200-250 a year and expect you to bill 90 hours a week
Enjoy that
One of my sapmill co-graduates went to some prestigious law school. vandy? etc. he was president or treasurer of pike or lambchops. google stalked him 5 or 6 years ago he was selling junk bonds.
I was seriously think of law school (i love to argue :) ) until I took ap chem as a hs senior.
Methinks I sense a pattern here.
My daughter is in #26. It seems to be shaping her head in ways I’m proud of.
There used to be a lot of public sector law jobs, but not anymore. Most are contracted out. Lawyers with a lot of loans would work in the public sector for a certain number of years, then their loans were forgiven (thanks to us taxpayers). At that point, they had the experience and financial stability to find a job paying a lot more in the private sector. That stepping stone has is largely gone.
A field where there are some legal jobs available is in the natural gas/shale extraction energy division. Lawyers can find work researching property titles for land that’s being leased. This is a portable position because you don’t have to be licensed in the state in which you are doing the research. Pays a decent per diem rate plus travel expenses to the county courthouses where the information is found.
Ladies and gentlemen, can you find it in your hearts to send $5, $10 or $6,000,000 to THE SEND A LAWYER TO PLUMBER SCHOOL FOUNDATION? Won’t you please help save another good kid from a life of bickering and avarice? In law school, they learn how to stir up the s**t. At plumber school, they learn how to make the s**t go away.
My friend is working on contracts for a real estate company. Makes good but not great money. He works 40 hours a week and spends all of his spare time with his family and friends.
Says he wouldn’t want it any other way.
I agree with a lot of this article, but as a firm lawyer, here’s how I’ve seen it play out over the years:
If you’re from a top 10 law school, you’re overwhelmingly likely to get a good job. You may not get the job you want, but you’ll get a good job. Financially, going to law school will be worthwhile.
If you’re in the top 50% of your class from another top tier law school, you’re also going to get a good job. It may take a little time, but you’ll get a job that made going to law school worthwhile.
Other than that, if you’re not in the top 10% of your class, you really shouldn’t bother to go to law school. Your job will likely not pay enough to make the investment worthwhile. You’ll be in debt up to your eyeballs with a job that doesn’t pay appreciably more than a non-lawyer job. If you have an overwhelming desire to work in a law firm (why???) save the money, become a paralegal.
A friend of mine who is a law professor just shakes his head at the number of lawyers we churn out in this country. We have too many law schools making too many promises that won’t pan out.
I have 5 peers who are lawyers. One makes a lot more than I do. Two are within $5,000 of me, and the other two make about 2/3 of what I do. The one who makes the good money got his Master’s in Mechanical Engineering before going to law school and now works for a large patent firm.
I asked him while he was in law school and he said he hated it, but that it was a means to an end for him. Now that he’s working, he feels trapped, but knows that in just a few more years he’ll have enough money to get out and do something he enjoys for the rest of his life.
I briefly looked at law school, but the industry averages didn’t justify the cost for me. Observing my peers makes me feel better about my decision...of the 5, only 1 is significantly better off than I am and I don’t have the debt load to service.
Sounds like a similar schedule to a relative of mine who works for an energy company researching title transfers for leases. Commutes to the courthouse a couple of times a week, but besides that he works from home on his own schedule (40 hours a week, but doesn’t have to be 9 to 5). Makes about $250/day plus expenses, I believe.
Doesn’t have benefits but has them through his spouse. There are occasionally work stoppages (few days here and there), but it’s been mostly steady since last spring when he first started the job.
With the skills he’s learned, he could really go anywhere in the country and work. He hopes that after a few years doing this, he’ll be able to move up to the next level where he’ll be reviewing the reports submitted by those in his present position.
I’m a bit concerned that fracture drilling may slow down with the low cost of crude oil, but it won’t be a permanent slow down.
So this babe had a SERIOUS BLOG about how terrible it was to go to law school.
...and guess what happened: BIG LAW SCHOOL bought the blog from her, and then promptly SHUT IT DOWN. But she got the word out. Graduate in the top 25% of the top 10% of law schools...and you will land that “partnership-track” job. Not be in that (very small) class...don’t bother - learn how to use a 1/2” ratchet.
And a lot of the jobs that newly minted law graduates used to do in firms as associates is getting farmed offshore, so there isn’t as much demand to hire new graduates.
The same thing is occurring with MBA’s. Go to a top 10 school and you are virtually guaranteed a high paying job with a prestigious company or investment firm. Do well in a top 10-20 school and you may be placed with a mid sized company or bank. Beyond the top 20 schools, you’ll be competing with undergraduates and the salary premium, if any, will not justify the investment.
Wake Forest University last year announced it was ending its full time MBA program. Virginia Tech ended its full time MBA program in 2013. Other second and third tier schools are considering dropping their full time MBA programs.
Ultimately market forces work. It will only be a matter of time before universities are shutting down law schools.
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