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To: buckalfa

That’s exactly what won WW2 - the Sherman was a piece of junk compared to the Panzer, Panther, Tiger tanks - but we made a zillion of them, and they were simple to maintain, relatively good on gas, and fast.

Germans, as they do sometimes, over engineered magnificent machines - so great were they that they could not be mass produced, and sometimes were not reliable.

This also played out on the Eastern front, where the crappy T-34s of the Soviets overwhelmed the superior German tanks on sheer numbers, not to mention logistical supply lines.


6 posted on 11/10/2014 8:16:07 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

T-34s were not crappy.

They outclassed every German tank at the time of thier introduction...


7 posted on 11/10/2014 8:21:13 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

There was nothing wrong with the T-34. The PKW V Panther was an attempt by the Germans to copy it. Unfortunately, some sort of committee got hold of it and turned it into a mechanical nightmare.

Likewise, the Sherman was a great tank; it was our doctrine that was flawed. The US Army (including Patton) thought that Tank Destroyers and anti-tank guns were supposed to fight tanks and that tanks were supposed to kill infantry and create breakthroughs. So the Sherman was armed with a low-velocity 75mm that good for throwing HE. Patton wanted a second MG mounted coaxially with the main gun, but didn’t want it converted into an anti-tank weapon.

The Brits, with the Sherman Firefly, proved that the Sherman was perfectly capably being converted into a tank-killing machine, but the nice people in charge of US Ordnance didn’t follow up with our own version. It was not until the very end of the war that the US got good tank-killing tanks, like the Pershing.

The Sherman went on to see service into the 1960s, when they were still serving with the Israelis as 105mm armed “Super Shermans.”


12 posted on 11/10/2014 8:28:40 AM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
.... but we made a zillion of them,

I don't know for sure, but I'd expect the Russians made more T-34s and did the same damage Shermans did.

25 posted on 11/10/2014 8:41:24 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: C. Edmund Wright

and the Sherman wasn’t a piece of junk. It was more reliable than the kraut’s tanks. It was just outclassed. Not enough armor. Too little a gun.


31 posted on 11/10/2014 8:47:06 AM PST by LouAvul (If government is the answer, you're asking the wrong question.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

“where the crappy T-34s of the Soviets”

Care to explain that? None other than Guderian said it was the most deadly tank in the world. First sloped armor, best gun, simple, very fast and mobile. Wonderful on cross country. In fact, most German supertanks were designed precisely to counter the T-34 which was killing them on the eastern front. The Panzer 4s were outclassed and the Panthers were meeting something with as good of a gun as they had but with better armor and in huge numbers.

Forget ideology, the T-34 was nearly perfect for its role and outclassed the Germans.


51 posted on 11/10/2014 9:09:36 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

T-34 was crappy? You are joking.

The T-34 was so effective, the Germans designed the Panther tank to counter it. Hence the sloped armor of the Panther compared to the Panzer III and Panzer IV.


67 posted on 11/10/2014 11:07:24 AM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Germans, as they do sometimes, over engineered magnificent machines - so great were they that they could not be mass produced..........................

Sounds a bit like America has a tendency to do in the years since WW 2. High dollar, and the best is the norm. Instead of small, agile, safe and inexpensive. Witness the numbers of Carriers that really will be sitting targets in any new full out war. I think there was a Sci-Fi book where one side kept upgrading until they had the very best machinery, but were beaten because of the “changing horse in mid stream” phenomenon.


98 posted on 11/10/2014 6:38:43 PM PST by Glad2bnuts
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