Criminalizing America – How Big Government Makes a Criminal Out of Everyone

American Legislator ^ | 10-27-14 | Cara Sullivan

[ThethoughtsofGreg]

Hear the story of George Norris, a 67-year old hobbyist, was convicted and sent to prison for failure to comply with obscure laws involving his small business – selling orchids from his backyard.

George Norris, a 67-year old hobbyist, developed a small business selling imported orchids out of his backyard greenhouse. Norris did his best to make sure he was in compliance with laws and regulations regarding his hobby. That’s why he was surprised to come home one day to find his house being raided by armed federal agents. After spending his life savings and borrowing what he could to pay legal fees, Norris was forced to plead guilty and sentenced with 17 months in prison and two years of probation for seven charges, five of which pertained to a document he had never seen before.

[VTenigma]

Didn’t someone named Rand write about this a long time ago? /s

[TheConservator]

I don’t watch videos. Too bad, cause it sounded like an interesting story.

[cloudmountain]

I wonder why Gregory didn’t do a little research before he set out on his business.

[TigersEye]

Direct link to Youtube video

[TigersEye]

Didn’t listen to the video did you?

[OneWingedShark]

CWII Spark Ping — When everyone is a criminal, why would law prevent us from ‘sedition’ and ‘treason’? after all, we’re already guilty.

[Secret Agent Man]

administrative laws help no citizens when they turn everyone into criminals.

[OneWingedShark]

administrative laws help no citizens when they turn everyone into criminals.

Are administrative laws criminal law or common law, or something else altogether?

[The_Reader_David]

I wonder why Gregory didn’t do a little research before he set out on his business.

I suspect he did. From the article:

"Norris did his best to make sure he was in compliance with laws and regulations regarding his hobby."

The problem is regulations have become so far-reaching and senseless that there are crimes hiding in the unknown unknowns -- the one's you don't know you don't know -- particularly if one is in business.

We need a blanket good-faith exception (like LEOs get for illegal searches) for citizens who have in good faith sought to comply with all relevant laws and through the onerous extent of the law and regulation now applicable, somehow failed, and it needs to be broad enough that it does not require hiring a lawyer to meet.

What was a reasonable maxim, when laws were few in number and by and large all instantiated generally accepted moral principles, that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," needs to be reversed so that ignorance of the law is an excuse, at least until the laws can be stuffed back into their proper bounds of being few in number and instantiating generally accepted moral principles -- an event, which I'm afraid is at least two revolutions away. (The first revolution will almost certainly be stolen by statists and will make things worse.)

[KoRn]

Our country is but a shadow of its former self.

We’re done....

[Soul of the South]

“We need a blanket good-faith exception (like LEOs get for illegal searches) for citizens who have in good faith sought to comply with all relevant laws and through the onerous extent of the law and regulation now applicable, somehow failed, and it needs to be broad enough that it does not require hiring a lawyer to meet.”

Send a letter to Boehner, McConnell, and your GOP congress critter (if you have one). I’m sure they’ll put it at the top of the 2015 legislative agenda.

[Steve_Seattle]

"I wonder why Gregory didn’t do a little research before he set out on his business."

His name is George, and If you'd watched the video you would have learned that he DID do research and DID attempt to comply with the pertinent laws. If you are sympathetic to sending a 67 year-old man to prison for seventeen months because of some obscure, unintended violation of import laws pertaining to orchids, you are on the wrong website. This was literally a backyard, business, not some vast enterprise generating millions of dollars of revenue.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Send a letter to Boehner, McConnell, and your GOP congress critter (if you have one). I’m sure they’ll put it at the top of the 2015 legislative agenda."

We can't pin this one on Obama - it all started in 2003.

[Mamzelle]

Same here. I’d like to know the story, but can’t manage the videos.

[Steve_Seattle]

"What was a reasonable maxim, when laws were few in number and by and large all instantiated generally accepted moral principles, that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," needs to be reversed so that ignorance of the law is an excuse, at least until the laws can be stuffed back into their proper bounds of being few in number and instantiating generally accepted moral principles -- an event, which I'm afraid is at least two revolutions away."

An excellent point, and you are the first one I have ever heard make it. This particularly applies to private citizens, who do not have the time or resources to investigate the full legal implications of everything they do.

[Mamzelle]

Yeah, a shame there’s no transcript!!!

[Steve_Seattle]

"Same here. I’d like to know the story, but can’t manage the videos."

To sum up, he ran a small business selling/propagating imported orchids out of a small backyard greenhouse. Aware of the numerous laws affecting imports, especially imports of plants, he boned up on the laws and tried to comply with them. When required by law, he obtained certification from the exporter that the plants were in compliance with all pertinent laws, including laws prohibiting wild harvesting.

One day his house was raided by a small army of feds, who claimed that some of his plants violated some law. He claimed the plants were mislabeled or misidentified by the exporter. He could not afford full legal representation, so pleaded guilty and spent 17 months in prison.

[Talisker]

Are administrative laws criminal law or common law, or something else altogether?

They are corporate laws - only. Their problem is fourfold: 1) they are written to hide that simple fact; 2) the government is allowed to presume they apply and haul people before a corporate court; 3) that corporate court does not have to admit it's limited jurisdiction and can presume you accept its power over you simply because you appear before it; 4) no formally admitted way exists for you to deny its authority or make it prove its authority.

Other than that, it's perfectly legal.

[Marie]

I promise you, you’ve broken the law at least once this year and had no idea.