Mormons address mystery surrounding undergarments

If fact, if I understand it right you aren’t eligible to go to the temple and get garments if you don’t honor “The Word of Wisdom”.

You probably know that one must be WORTHY to enter the temple.

Is your wife's TR card current?

Times change.

So does the Mormon god; evidently...

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."
"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

The Mormon prophets have said that eating meat sparingly is wise and doctors agree with them.

I guess the Meat Markets in UTAH (57% Mormon population) must REALLY have slow sales in hot weather.

Defiling the covenants is what is being talked about.

Oh?

The text does NOT say that.

THE GARMENT

[An officiator clothes the initiate in the garment. The officiator then pronounces the following words.]

Brother _________, having authority, I place this garment upon you [for and in behalf of _________, who is dead], which you must wear throughout your life. It represents the garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the garden of Eden and is called the garment of the holy priesthood.

Inasmuch as you do not defile it, but are true and faithful to your covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work on the earth.

I think you may have intended that post for another Freeman...

Magical Underoos Placemarker!

worn in other religious faiths such as a Catholic nun's habit or a Muslim skullcap.

???

I thought “skullcaps” or “Yarmulke's” were worn by Jews.

You certainly do have a hard on for them.

The custom of keeping part of one's body in the garment while bathing didn't die completely in the 19th century. It's not a topic I see come up frequently on contemporary LDS boards, but it is a recurrent topic (and, when described, it invariably involves the ankle swap and not hands)..

As you likely know, bathing is one of the specifically recognized activities during which garments may be removed, so Latter-Day Saints who are taught this are being taught folklore. Wearing or touching a garment while bathing is not an official teaching of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

The garments may also be removed for intimate moments, but a minute, fractional percentage of Latter-Day Saints don't. The issue comes up repeatedly in the columns of LDS therapists and counselors and on contemporary LDS boards, all in the context of improving marital relationships.

When the late LDS Apostle Mark E. Peterson gave talks about chastity at BYU and to other youth groups, he invariably mentioned that he'd been married for X years but had never seen his wife's nude body. Perhaps the couple kept the lights turned off, but given the nature of Peterson's talks I'd guess: garments. Peterson and his wife would have worn the one-piece post-1923 garments with the lower access, although Peterson lived to see the 1979 two-piece garments.

Wearing garments during intimacy is not an official teaching of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. A few LDS may do so and I almost always see it in the context of an LDS woman raised in a very conservative LDS family in which chastity and LDS modesty were taught to the extreme. Those Latter-Day Saints are not following church teachings any more than Baptists who commit adultery or Buddhists who murder.

So, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not teach either the bathing or intimacy rule and actually has a specific exception for both activities. Some people may be more conservative than the rule, but they are not following the official teachings of the church. It happens in all religions.

When I think of conservative attitudes regarding intimacy, I don't think about the COJCOLDS. I think about my BIL, who married an extremely conservative Southern Baptist girl from Plano whom he met when they attended Baylor, or the guy who married the sister of my BIL's wife.

They knew nothing of the sort...more “wive tales” and myths.

http://www.mormonismi.net/jamesdavid/posting6.htm

Move to strike BenLurkin’s post. It seems inappropriate for the Religion Forum Rules.

Move=Motion

I'm pretty sure Steve Young was wearing his magic underwear on this day.

This thread is posted in Chat.

Thanks.

I realize much of the national attention to the issue of LDS garments is as a result of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints issuing the press release, photos, and video.

A significant part of the attention, in my opinion, comes from a rather childish fascination with garments that members of the Latter-Day Saints movement consider sacred.

In addition to the press release about garments and (most of the) temple clothing, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints added three new essays to the Gospel Topics section of the lds.org website on 10/22.

They are:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage

The first essay may be a major re-write of a previous essay, but I can't find a corresponding essay on any wayback device.

These three essays introduce (to many) or confirm (to many) issues not generally taught by the church and facts not found on the lds.org website on 10/21. "Like what?" you ask. Smith practiced polyandry and polygamy, with 30-40 wives, or at least not since the seven-volume History of the Church was removed from the website. Examples? Smith may have had two or three children from his marriages other than to Emma. Marriages were kept secret from Emma. Others in Nauvoo practiced polyandry. Post-Manifesto polygamous marriages in the US involving names you would know. That's scarcely the tip of the iceberg contained in the new, official LDS essays, but nothing in the essays (except some of the polygamy is not polygamy explanations) is new to a historian of the Latter-Day Saints movement.

The information is no longer 'anti-Mormon propaganda'; it is stated as fact by the COJCOLDS on the lds.org website, with footnoted references to the faithful resources.

The church cites as resources books one would not have expected the church to use as resources, such as In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton.

The different explanations for why denial of the practice of polygamy were technically correct are interesting.

The COJCOLDS should be commended for its year+ long campaign of releasing essays on history and doctrine, even though historians and theologians may say the essays are not fully transparent nor complete.

There was no press release with the publication of these new essays; I wouldn't expect one, although some of the new essays have been accompanied by press releases.

Of the new Gospel Topics essays only the Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be found by using the search function at lds.org or within Gospel Topics.

The new Gospel Topics essays Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo and The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage can't be reached through Gospel Topics topics or the lds.org search engine. They are only accessible through links in the Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints essay, so someone searching for these topics can't find them. They can only be reached by someone stumbling across them when reading another Gospel Topics essay.

There are things I would add to, clarify, or dispute within the essays, but that's me. In all, I believe the new essays are important if faithful sources of information. Thanks, lds.org.

I apologize for the length of this post. I happy to discuss this, but I have no desire to discuss theology.

Just hit the abuse button. That’s the best way to get the mods’s attention.

You certainly do have a hard on for them.

Not 'them'; but 'it'; MormonISM.

It is a hellish false teaching and exposing stuff like this comes with the territory: if you are a Christian.

When the late LDS Apostle Mark E. Peterson gave talks about chastity at BYU and to other youth groups, he invariably mentioned that he'd been married for X years but had never seen his wife's nude body.

Counseling; eh??

What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?

"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

spencer kimball "Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

kimball "I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

Wait a MINUTE!

Is this a JOKE??

Mark E. Peterson