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To: jjotto
The lead pipe bit is quite over-stated. Perversion and immorality are likewise not viable causes.

Bad immigration policies, disease, and bloated, corrupt government are far better candidates for why the Empire ended.

5 posted on 10/03/2014 5:15:13 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Now is not the time for fear. That comes later.")
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To: ClearCase_guy

A great historian I read said that all great societies (empires if you will) imported in their working class.

Be it conquered people, slaves or outside indigents.

All to the downfall of that society.

America? We imported blacks from Africa. If that didn’t do enough devastation to our society, we are now importing Mexicans. Who will soon be the majority of US citizens.

Could be worse. Europe has “welcomed” in millions of muslims. And of course, European culture is finished forever.


11 posted on 10/03/2014 5:20:46 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: ClearCase_guy
... and bloated, corrupt government ...

I promised myself a treat some time ago that I would read Gibbons. Fascinating and very surprising. I'm a little more than half-way through an abridged version (over 1,000 pages). I'm well into the early history of the Roman and Byzantine church.

The church and state had a very cozy and corrupt relationship which had little to do with religion. They both tended to use each other, often for personal enrichment. The state, thanks primarily to Constantine, always seemed to have the upper hand.

The state/church shamelessly plundered the empire and filled its offices with morally corrupt individuals. Justice was grossly unjust with bribery and extortion commonplace. My full verdict is still out however, but what I thought I knew is being confirmed by Gibbons. Rome was a rotten apple, pretty and shiny on the outside and filled with worms on the inside.

50 posted on 10/03/2014 5:55:19 PM PDT by trubolotta
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