The Reign Of Windows At Work 'Is Coming To An End' And Macs Are Rising Fast

Business Insider ^ | 07/05/2014 | Julie Bort

[SeekAndFind]

It's been clear for some time that the iPad has taken the enterprise by storm as employees tote it to work and companies buy fleets of them. But Apple's PC, the Mac, has never been as dominant in the workplace, until now, according to new research from long-time Microsoft rival, VMware.

VMware queried 376 IT professionals and found that they are increasingly being asked to buy and/or support Macs in the enterprise by employees who want Macs, not Windows machines.

"Microsoft Windows has dominated enterprise desktops for close to three decades but it appears its reign is coming to an end. As BYOPC ["Bring Your Own PC"] and BYOD [Bring Your Own Device] continue to transform the enterprise, Macs have become a popular and preferred option compared to Windows PCs," says Erik Frieberg, VP of Marketing, End-User Computing, VMware, in the report.

[catnipman]

WTF??? Why the hell do you keep addressing your unhinged and abusive remarks to me?

[Lx]

Nice graph, one maker, Apple against six others, tsk tsk, a might bit dishonest.

Apple kicking six other manufacturers' butts, here's a hint, who was it dishonest against? I know you're under some weird delusion that I hate Apple but I don't.

I'm not the one who whines, wow, 21% represents other PC manufacturers and they are very nefarious, by using the word, 'other'. To tell you the truth I really don't care about these kind of nits and I really don't care about your frothy opinion. Man, they need a new DSM just for you.

You complain about something I say and then turn around and say it proves I'm losing whatever the argument is, that might have worked for you in fourth grade but here, please.

I guess it doesn't matter to the faithful but if I want a Windows PC, I can get one anywhere or build one. If one wants a Mac, you get one choice, remember Radius clones, no one does, maybe Psystar will do better but I doubt it? Get a device that can run Cisco's IOS and see where that goes. Of course, in such a case, the real moneymakers are the attorneys. I'd build a Mac clone but I don't want you to have chest pains over your more ethical than thou self delusion.

Who sells the O/S for the other 55%? I like Linux but for argument's sake, it's Microsoft, they even call it a Microsoft tax.

So, when I lump together all the manufacturers, it's as bad as dividing by zero but when you mention profits when Apple sells the hardware and software, that's OK. Is there a chart where they separate the MS tax so the P/L is more accurate or did they already do that? Isn't there a term for when a single manufacturer sells an object; I guess since you can buy a computer, that let's them off the hook. or I guess they should have hired the correct politician for their board. Now, as I previously posted, the latest O/S 10, is only $19.95 (I think you can download updates for free though, are you listening MS?), but is it the real cost or was that to eliminate the charges of having a monopoly on the hardware?

You seem to enjoy pictures, here's one sent me via FRmail, I don't know if he wants me to use his name but thanks.

Now, it is impressive when you look at the Iphone market's incredible growth not to mention the clones they inspired. It would have been nice if they had included RIM or Nokia, too.

They are printing money on their products; good thing they're made in America.

While Apple's market share is small, they are again printing money; imagine the thousands of people they employ in America to make their products.

I never said a Mac was a bad product, I just don't see them in businesses as I mentioned a few times. I would be ecstatic if the CIO said we would have to support Macs. I'd be less ecstatic if we had to support a large number of wireless devices but it's doable.

Now, on to Windows 8. It wasn't that bad it was that Widnows 7 was that good and that funky Metro interface was forced on mouse users, who lost their job over that?. Even though 8.1 is a big improvement, it still has Metro although you can get a Start menu substitute that works great for $4, except it should be there in the first place! How did this affect MS?

When did 8 come out?

[Lx]

Man such arrogance but you're the genius. Looks like someone else finds your comments "unhinged and abusive".

I didn't say I didn't know who Alinsky was, I said I had to look him up to spell his name correctly.

Don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back over your brilliance.

I've never read him but I did read Mein Kampf, you may have thought Galt's speech was long but imagine an entire book but without Galt's Rand induced brilliance.

So, you looked up a few threads I was on, I'm still in your mind, poor thing.

[Swordmaker]

Whoa! For an exalted network guru, you sure know very little about sizing images for the Internet. . . These are huge! I'm not using my 27" iMac right now! Try using width = "500" or so after the URL and before the right caret character. Cut those babies down to a reasonable size.

I'm not the one who whines, wow, 21% represents other PC manufacturers and they are very nefarious, by using the word, 'other'. To tell you the truth I really don't care about these kind of nits and I really don't care about your frothy opinion. Man, they need a new DSM just for you.

Ok you got your obligatory insults in. How about trying to NOT use them ? Make a conscious effort, Lx.

You're whining now. You're demonstrating you still have no comprehension with your very first sentence: " Apple kicking six other manufacturers' butts, here's a hint, who was it dishonest against?"

I don't know. Who? You? That huge computer maker Other? Microsoft? The tooth fairy? Sasquatch? Tell us.

Did you bother to read the critique or just skip over it? You are still claiming there SIX competitors opposite Apple? Counting skills are important in life. Most of us learned them in pre-school. I learned them from my mother and father when I was two. Let me make it simple for you.

• Dell—one.
  
• HP—two.
  
• Lenovo—three.
  
• ASUS—four.
• Acer—five.
• Other—an unknown number that is NOT six.

Lx, where do you dishonestly, and nefariously get only six competitors from that? Are your analysis skills so lacking? Did you sleep through math, logic, and statistics classes? It seems as if you did. I cannot believe that so I must conclude you are attempting to deliberately obfuscate the data, the facts, for other readers. That fits your behavior better, I think.

Or do you seriously want people to think you believe there is a monolithic unknown company called Other? FIVE named competitors and an unspecified number of other competitors. Lx, how many competitors are there in "Other?" Since these are PC makers/assemblers with a profit share less than 1% each, there mathematically have to be at least 2, which would make it Apple against at least 26 competitors. But industry experts report there are thousand of PC makers in this group.

Do you really think the author can put every one of the thousands of maker/assemblers of PCs with a profit share below 1% on that pie chart in a wedge and give them a label of their own? ROTFLMAO! Again.

Lx, let me educate you. In statistics, it is standard practice to congregate insignificant participants in an industry, population, sample, etc., under the title of "Other" when there is no significant data gleanable from breaking the data down any further. There is no purpose or probative value to do so. A profit share of under 1% is a reasonable share to arbitrarily designate as insignificant in this case. Most of these small companies' wedges would be less than a second of arc, probably not even a pixel width, on such a display. They are minor players, coming in and out of the market. . . noise and chaff. . . significant only as a group. Ergo, they were displayed as a group wedge.

Would you have preferred another label for that wedge? What? Please enlighten us. What would be less. . . "Nefarious?” Less "dishonest?" I, for one, would really love to know what would be a better label than the accepted standard. Please, make a suggestion. Future statisticians are waiting with bated breath for a better terminology.

You then post a flurry of product shipment and data financial charts from the same period essentially proving what I showed with one, where I explained its meaning in detail. I was once told by one of my economics professors, when a student doesn't understand a topic, he plasters his report with too many graphs, without any explanations of WHY they're included. You just did that. LOL! W.C. Fields said, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t." You are attempting the bafflement, because the brilliance just ain't there. Sorry. The baffling isn't working either.

You started out belittling these data. . . claiming it is "dishonest" and nefarious" when these data are from the industry and easily replicated and found duplicated from many sources. . . when you didn't know a damn thing about what you were talking about. You're now on your second post digging yourself deeper and deeper. When you do that, don't be surprised when someone like me hands you your head. Enjoy China when you reach it.

Change of subject.

I guess it doesn't matter to the faithful but if I want a Windows PC, I can get one anywhere or build one. If one wants a Mac, you get one choice, remember Radius clones, no one does, maybe Psystar will do better but I doubt it? Get a device that can run Cisco's IOS and see where that goes. Of course, in such a case, the real moneymakers are the attorneys. I'd build a Mac clone but I don't want you to have chest pains over your more ethical than thou self delusion.

If you want a Windows PC, fine. Get one. I don't give a damn. If you want to build a Mac clone, that's between you, your conscience, and God. I told you Apple most likely won't go after you. Here's some current instructions on how to do it.

How to build a Hackintosh—part 1—Selecting the parts.

How to build a Hackintosh—part 2—Assembling and configuring.

Go for it. Don't worry about my health.

I know you're under some weird delusion that I hate Apple but I don't.

You could fool us.

You're the one who is making all the negative comments about another platform you know very little about. I guess it doesn't matter to you've, but most of us have HAD a Windows PC and never want to repeat the miserable experience again, so why should we be so insane as to want to buy one again, much less build one?

I remember Radius Mac clones. . . and many more besides. CEOs Michael Spindler and Gil Amelio thought that it was possible for Apple to both be an OS publisher and a manufacturer of computers that competed with the computers running the OS they published. They were delusional. No company has ever been successful doing it. They soon learned it was not a good idea to be in direct competition with your customer AND your competitor. To compete with the various niche models the clones were filling, Apple started making too many models and lines, lost focus, and still could not compete because they simply could not. Costs climbed with each model added.

When Steve Jobs returned he found an unfocused mess. Apple was making over eighty different configurations of Macs in over 30 models in four lines. . . and unsold inventories were climbing. There were actually 168 different legal clones of Apple Macs worldwide from 1995 to 1997 when Jobs canceled the misguided Apple MacOS Licensing program that had almost bankrupted Apple.

your more ethical than thou self delusion.

Now we need to look at a consistent philosophy that is not based on convenient wants.

Holier than thou? I'm a conservative Christian. I believe in the law. Both God's law (Thou shalt not steal.) and the Rule of law established in our Constitution, which established both copyrights and Patents, giving the owners of the intellectual property and inventions a monopoly on how and when those ideas and inventions can be used. Apple put in the investment and hard work to perfect an operating system to make their hardware worth buying and so they could make a profit on the sales of their hardware. That is their purpose for it to be used. No other. They did not put in that hard work and investment so that Lx or anyone else could build a clone. The law says you may not make use of their invention for any purpose without their agreement.

Do you know what a license is? Even a drivers license or a dog license or hunting license? It's a permit to do something that would be otherwise AGAINST THE LAW. Somethings should require such permits some should not. A natural right such as bearing arms, free speech, worshipping, etc., should never require a license in any circumstance. Apple grants the purchasers and owners and users of its Apple branded computer hardware a limited license to use its property, its software. Otherwise, it's against the law.

When you "buy" Apple's OSX you are only buying that permission, a license, to use their property under limited conditions. You want to have no conditions. Apple could sell an unlimited license. . . but they are not. How is what you want different from the guy who wants to use your car, permanently, without your permission? Or the children who want to step across our border without the legal niceties? How about eating the restaurant's food without paying for it? What's the difference?

You mentioned Psystar, saying you hoped it would be able to do cloning better than Radius. Another example of your peculiar ignorance. US District Court Judge William Alsup slapped Psystar down in November 2009—five years ago. Psystar was ordered to pay Apple $2.7 million and attempt to recall any computers the had sold with OSX installed. Psystar appealed. It was denied at the Appellate court, and Psystar appealed to the US Supreme Court. On May 14, 2012, the Supreme Court denied Psystar's appeal. Radius made their clones under license. They are still in business making monitors. Psystar is pushing up daisies. If you have a Ouija board, you might ask Psystar how their luck is holding up in doing better than Radius.

Psystar used the argument that you use. . . it's OK, I'm really and truly buying OSX and Apple can't tell me what I can do with it since I own it. The courts disagreed. From the trial court to the US Supreme Court. You are NOT buying the software, you are buying the permission to use it as licensed.

Now, as I previously posted, the latest O/S 10, is only $19.95 (I think you can download updates for free though, are you listening MS?), but is it the real cost or was that to eliminate the charges of having a monopoly on the hardware?

Are you channeling the Occupy movement? Or just Harry Reid and the Democrat anti-Capitalists? As a man with a degree in economics, I can tell you that you don't have a clue (again, this is getting monotonous) what a monopoly is.

First of all, does Ford have a monopoly on Ford cars and Ford trucks? You bet. Do you have a monopoly on Lx's labor? You bet. Can you and Ford be "charged" with exercising such a monopoly? Nope. Then how can Apple be charged with having a monopoly on their hardware? Your point is an absurdity. No, it doesn't even rise to the level of absurdity!

Secondly, OS X.5 Leopard to which you are referring is not the latest version. It came out seven years ago. The current version is OS X.9 Mavericks (October 2013) and the cost is $0 for owners of Apple Macs with an OS X 8 Mountain Lion installed. Apple is currently finishing working on OS X 10 Yosemite (due October).

You say you are buying OSX because you would be paying $19.95 for the it, but the law and the courts strongly disagree with you. Did you even bother to read the license agreement? That's a contract. That price is specifically for installing that operating system on a single Apple Macintosh branded computer to upgrade the computer as the license specifies how that software may be used. If it was meant for installation on any generic computer, the license would so state, as does Microsoft's, and the price would be far greater, as Microsoft's is.

Why is the price so low? Because much of what is being installed is already on the Mac computer that was already bought and paid for if the buyer of the upgrade disk had actually bought a Mac. Steve Jobs addressed this. The majority of the amortized development costs had been paid when the computer was purchased and Apple believes you should not have to pay twice. Literally, it's because Apple is not in the business of selling operating systems. Of course, since you do not own a current Mac, you will not have paid for those development costs and are not entitled to install the OS.

Why does Apple make it a full install disk? Unlike Microsoft, Apple has always tried to assure that an OS X reinstall, if necessary, is monolithic, complete in one package, so they include everything. One should not have to install an older version, then another, then another. It is just one more example of attention to customer experience. There are some modern downloadable exceptions, now. For example, one must have OS X Lion or Mountain Lion installed to install the free download only OS X Mavericks.

Consider this true scenario involving intellectual property. Some forty years ago, a woman in my city hired a contractor and an architect to design a unique house for her. She paid $25,000 for the design which the architect copyrighted, a standard practice. (Call this the OS). The contractor built her house on a nice lot in North part of the city where it fit the neighborhood of similar homes. (Call this land and setting her computer)

A city councilman saw her house and liked it, coveted it, and went to a local major developer and asked the developer to build one exactly like it. The developer said "We will need plans." The city councilman and the developer went into the City Building Permit Office and pulled the architectural plans for the woman's house. They proceeded to make a mirror image copy of the woman's unique house in the south part of town.

During construction, part of the plans of the curved grand stairway were unclear, so the developer and the councilman checked out a city marked truck, drove to the woman's house, knocked on her door and told her they were from the Building Permit Office. They explained that during a routine review of her building permit from eight years before, something had not been checked off. . . "Please excuse the intrusion, but it'll just take a moment. We need to look at it, make sure it is OK, and then we'll be gone. Wouldn't want your fire insurance to be affected, you know." They proceeded to inspect the stairs, learned how it was constructed and left, assuring her everything was copacetic.

The city councilman's house was a true eyesore, a three story frankenhouse finished in Flamingo Pink behind a stucco wall in a neighborhood of single story white bungalows. (The wrong land and setting) The floor plan, structure, details, everything but the horrid color and the mirror reversal were exact copies of the woman's house. (Call this installing a fine OS the wrong computer!)

Who owned the design? The woman? The architect? The city? The previous contractor who built the house for the woman?

Was the woman harmed? How about the architect? How about the community? Comments?

What is the Christian or conservative thing to have done in this case?

Am I being holier than thou? Than you? Perhaps. This is about people's livelihoods. You are the one who thinks it's OK to pocket the hard work of people without appropriately compensating them, not I.

Adding injury to insult, the developer, with the architectural plans in hand, built four more clones of the woman's home in the surrounding area. (I know all the names of the persons involved in this. . . I got the story from the developer's brother, one of my clients, who thought it was uproariously funny. I independently confirmed the details.)

So, when I lump together all the manufacturers, it's as bad as dividing by zero but when you mention profits when Apple sells the hardware and software, that's OK. Is there a chart where they separate the MS tax so the P/L is more accurate or did they already do that? Isn't there a term for when a single manufacturer sells an object; I guess since you can buy a computer, that let's them off the hook. or I guess they should have hired the correct politician for their board.

No, it's the same. Whether a company develops the OS themselves, as does Apple, and includes those development costs in their sales price, or they buy their OS from Microsoft, as do HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer, and those thousands of other assemblers who pay the Microsoft Tax, they include that MS Tax cost in their sales price, it works out about the same. Bulk OEM license from Microsoft, depending on quantity, run $20-$65 per unit. Back when Apple was licensing clones, their OEM license was $40-$50 per unit. Using Apple's standard software markup, apple most likely allocates about $25 per Mac for the OS at cost, plus there are other apps that will have license fees. . . Probably around $75 at cost more per Mac. In the long run, both machines come with software from the vendors. . . and those profit data charts includes it. So Lx, ahem, it is comparing apples to apples.

By the way, because Microsoft is stupidly competing with their own business customers (just as Apple did back in '95 -'97, and they too will eventually learn it's NOT a good idea), they are now a PC maker with their Surface tablet/laptop line, so they were included in the "Other" wedge in 2013's pie chart where Apple took home 55% of the industry's profits. (Truth be told, MS was present in the 21% in 2012 but as some part of a $900,000,000 loss! The rest will be taken on the 2013 chart.) Microsoft's figures on the 2013 pie did not include their Xbox, OS, or Office sales figures, only their PC sales.

Incidentally, none of Apple's figures on these charts include any profits from their iPads or iPhones. Canalys, one of the major PC statistical reporting firms in the world", noting that IDC and Gartner were counting all of Microsoft's tablets but not iPads in their numbers, distinctly distorting the figures, started including iPads and other tablets in PC figures. Several other statistical firms are beginning to follow suit. By that metric, Apple is the largest PC manufacturer in the world. . . by a large measure.

When did 8 come out?

October 26, 2012

Thanks for the advice. My shoulder is getting sore.

[Lx]

Get paid by the word or something Melville?

I gotta go to the salt mines but if I get a moment I'll reply as I know you're eagerly waiting for the response to what you must imagine is taking me to the woodshed.

I've read the Bible quite a few times and I missed the part where it says to mention you're a Christian every X amount of posts. I see your Christian values didn't stop you from posting instructions on how to build a Mac. Reminds me of Paul talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols, it's OK unless it causes problems for Christians. What if your links cause just one person to sin and build a Mac clone?

Oh yeah, you read the EULA, it figures.

[Swordmaker]

I've read the Bible quite a few times and I missed the part where it says to mention you're a Christian every X amount of posts. I see your Christian values didn't stop you from posting instructions on how to build a Mac. Reminds me of Paul talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols, it's OK unless it causes problems for Christians. What if your links cause just one person to sin and build a Mac clone?

Lol! It doesn't. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. I'm not responsible for what you do with the information. I just wanted to relieve you of your anxiety about my health.

Oh yeah, you read the EULA, it figures.

Don't you read contracts you enter into? Lx, learn the facts. . . the devil is in the fine print! I even read the part that said Apple products cannot be used in any way to develop nuclear weapons, despite the fact they are the computers of choice at Lawrence Livermore and Sandia National Laboratories. Looks like others ignore EULAs too. LOL!

[Lx]

Yes, I read every EULA out there. Of course not, I already know what they say, I have no rights, software has bugs and blah blah blah. You, You were the one wearing your Christianity on your sleeve by bringing up what I can only assume since it written in your trademark pretentious, pedantic and pompous style was my supposed Christian hypocrisy about cloning a Mac.

I didn't mention it, no, you must have read it in another thread about me.

I'm still in your head, I own you but don't worry, I offed your soul to Ned Flanders.

Yes, you're right, those six companies were clobbered by Apple, I seem to recall saying it.

I'd love to continue this stimulating conversation (at least my side is)but I'm beat and you'll love this, I had not one but two people who needed help on their Windows PCs and since they were relatives, they thought my time and considerable expertise was free. This is like when I was 16 and I'd get a call from someone I hadn't heard of in 6 months and what was I doing that weekend, my standard answer was always, not working on your car unless you can afford me.

I love telling people my rate is $80 an hour and it's a three hour minimum but I cut them slack as they're some sort of relatives and I don't do desktops except for people who think free icons are just a great idea, nothing good is free, BTW my normal fee is much lower, at my normal job I make minimum wage and they promised me management training!

If you previously hated the Weather Channel, install their app. It's awesome in its evilness. Remember, task manager is your friend.

[Swordmaker]

Yes, you're right, those six companies were clobbered by Apple, I seem to recall saying it.

Six??? Yes, you said it. This is the fourth reply you've claimed that number.

You still don't get it.

Dell, HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer.

That's FIVE.

Please specifically name the SIXTH company.

It's a simple request. . . go ahead. Do it.

My hourly is higher than yours. . . plus mileage. Hey, have you seen the pump prices in Sacramento lately? ;^) I don't hit them up for a more than an hour minimum. But I'm on monthly or quarterly retainer for most of my clients. . . I get paid if they use my services or not. Downside is that my company people will be there when they need us 24/7 for as long as it takes. Special projects are quoted per job.

Funny. I spent two and a half hours working on computer for an old friend on the way home from Stockton to Sacramento this afternoon. . . emphasis on the word "old." My compensation? A dozen eggs from his chickens. LOL!

At my marginal tax rate I should throw four of them at the nearest IRS office!

But I've got to balance the delightful satisfaction that would bring me against how good they'd taste in a cheese omelet. . . Damn, decisions, decisions.

. . . at my normal job I make minimum wage and they promised me management training!

Why, oh why am I not surprised. . . better get that promise in writing.

By-the-way, you are so far from being in my head, you are not even on the same continent.

[Lx]

I count six but I'm just an underpaid nobody, I think they are a new company DBA 'Other'. What's the big deal-eo? Who also lives in Sacramento. That was my hourly rate to desktops who happen to be relatives, my network business rate is astronomical plus whatever the mileage compensation is. If there is air travel, no business on either travel day and the best suite at the Motel 6.

I just fell into a Mac today. It is the one with the base that is the half sphere and has some sort of cantilevered display mount. Will it run OS/X?

I was offered a very lucrative new business last week (for me that is although I consulted on a couple over the years) that I've been wanting to do for 20 years. I did some calculations on a napkin and it looks doable. Lots of risk so now that I might be doing something else, maybe somebody will take my #1 spot as the guy that gets things done, then you'll be able to break 100. Good news all around.

Of course, I will move my clients off to a guy who is as good if not better than me but if things fail (which I doubt since my would be partner is brilliant at what he does), I'll step back in as if I've never left.

Of course I'm no longer in your head, I sold your soul to Ned Flanders:

I like the cut of his jib.

You need some straight sane thinking and I think you'll find this person's viewpoint, ummmmm, unique. Not safe for anyone.

This is wonderful fresh thinking

[Swordmaker]

I was offered a very lucrative new business last week (for me that is although I consulted on a couple over the years) that I've been wanting to do for 20 years. I did some calculations on a napkin and it looks doable. Lots of risk so now that I might be doing something else, maybe somebody will take my #1 spot as the guy that gets things done, then you'll be able to break 100. Good news all around.

Hey! I'm glad for you. . . I hope it isn't Bridge leases. . . In Brooklyn. Grin.

I hope you got a good price for me. . . But I just checked my soul and it's still here. . . although the IRS has been trying to get a lien on it for some time. And, no, I haven't ". . .sold my soul to the company store!"

Now about your Mac. It will run OSX.

Unfortunately, that's an iMac G4 Processor PowerMac, (no Intel processor) and depending on which model you have, it might be able to run OSX.5.8 Leopard, but most of those G4s could only be upgraded to OSX.4.11 Tiger. Those G4s with a 1.0 GHz or a 1.25 GHz PowerPC processor can be upgraded to OSX.5.8 Leopard. They can also run Apple MacOS 9.2.2 via the software Rosetta app.

The 700 MHz and 800 MHz earlier models which only supported OSX Tiger, had a maximum RAM of 1GB. They were introduced in 2002 and discontinued in 2003' in favor of the 1.0 and 1.25 GHz with Max 2GB capacity, which were in-turn, discontinued July 1, 2004. Ten years ago.

We used to use 10 of these in the dental office I manage for one my clients as workstations. When they were retired in favor of Intel iMacs, the office donated them to my food bank where, as far as I know since I still get questions occasionally about the database I created for them, they are still being used.

I was just reading about a browser for OSX.5 Leopard PowerMacs that has modern HTML5 drivers in it that's keeping some of these antiques still operating safely on the Internet. Here ya go! PowerPC Macs most definitely still have game

Looks like it won't work with Tiger, too bad, but yours is one that'll take Leopard, I think I might be able to scare up a Leopard install disk.

[Lx]

Hey! I'm glad for you. . . I hope it isn't Bridge leases. . . In Brooklyn. Grin.

I'm not that stupid, we buy them outright!

I was afraid you were going to say what you said. I didn't have time to even hook it up or look it up but I had a PPC Mac before, it ran whatever the OS was before X but it would never install any version of OS/X that I had access too even though the guy that gave me the disks said it ran on his what he said was identical machine before he upgraded to some badboy version of the notebook Mac. And, these were the older version of X, he'd upgraded to the latest already so I didn't what the problem was. I said I'd buy his old one since it ran O/S X but he'd gotten rid of it in an e waste day at his work. Speaking of e-waste, I was at one of those places and in the 80s I would have killed to get my hands on that hardware, now it's just so much junk, sad but at least it (I assume) isn't going to a landfill.

But if you says it'll run O/S X.4.11 Tiger, then that's what I'll try. The one I had before was the tower version of those colored all in one Macs so it was kind of funky but it was well made inside. It worked, it ran well and hooked right up to the network and DHCPd it's way into talking. It even ran Linux which while I like Linux, I didn't want to waste a Mac running something I could do on a 100 different clones.

I might have to take you up on that offer of the disk, it isn't installed somewhere else is it because , all joking aside, I don't really like software piracy since it's stealing no matter how you phrase it and it raises prices for the rest of us.

Thanks for the offer on the disk. Maybe I'll get to be the annoying relative who screws up his computer and expects free at my door service.

[Swordmaker]

I might have to take you up on that offer of the disk, it isn't installed somewhere else is it because , all joking aside, I don't really like software piracy since it's stealing no matter how you phrase it and it raises prices for the rest of us.

I hope I can find one. We used to have around a dozen of them, but I too did a general cobweb and e-waste clean out so I could get to my pool table and wood working tools a few years ago. I'm pretty sure I still have a OSX.5 Leopard somewhere in the garage of my Stockton house. Finding a generic OSX.4 Tiger install disk is going to be more problematic.

What speed processor is in your Mac? That determines what you can get away with. Leopard is far superior to Tiger. Some still claim it was the best version ever.

Hmmm. I still have my old original 2003 PowerMac G5 Tower that my ex-wife was using until the power supply decided to let the magic blue smoke out last year. I got her a brand new Intel Mac mini as a replacement. It's still sitting in the garage gathering dust. The drives in that G5 are still good, I think. I can't recall if it was running Tiger or Leopard when it died. All it needs is a new power supply which I've never gotten around to buying. I always kept a disk image of the current OSX on one of the drives. That's another possibility. Possibilities.

[TheBattman]

There is an open source project that has kept Firefox current specifically for PowerPC Macs. It is what we run on my old Dual G5 PowerMac that my wife uses. (TenFour Fox).

[Lx]

You live in Stockton? I used to have three clients down there two businesses one downtown by the DMV who had Novell and a home business in this beautiful house in a gated community, might have been a country club but it was nice and all the times I've been there I've never seen any crime that it has had a reputation for. Sacramento has had its moments in the sun as well; one block from where I was working, thugs shot this guy in the neck, yanked him out of his car and left him to die in the street all over the rims on his car. It was brutal and people didn't like working at night even though it had happened in broad daylight.

But, that bank robbery with the running gun battle and the dead hostage used as a human shield just shocks me with such disregard for life and it's not Stockton's fault but it's so close we get basically local coverage and I'm still just amazed at something that looks like a 1930s mob movie and let's not forget the murder of innocent air travelers, I hope none of you family was impacted in that shootout nightmare. How many cop cars were shot? They said houses and cars had bullet holes, insane, I'm amazed more people didn't die just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Back to something that is not depressing is that I didn't have a chance to pick the Mac up and I don't know what it has as far as speed or memory. The Mac I had used regular memory and being a pack rat I've probably got the correct memory to fill this one up to whatever it can take.

Is the G5 tower the one that look like it has a brushed aluminum case? Those things are nice. Don't they take regular ATX power supplies or do you have to order one from Apple? Are you looking to sell it? Will it run the VM software that allows you to boot other O/S's? It's still a PPC CPU though isn't it?

[Swordmaker]

Txnma; MHginTN; randita; lexbaird; PA Engineer; itsahoot; roadcat; grey_Whiskers; thebattman; coon2000; zeugma; preciousLiberty; Crusher138; But, that bank robbery with the running gun battle and the dead hostage used as a human shield just shocks me with such disregard for life and it's not Stockton's fault but it's so close we get basically local coverage and I'm still just amazed at something that looks like a 1930s mob movie and let's not forget the murder of innocent air travelers, I hope none of you family was impacted in that shootout nightmare. How many cop cars were shot? They said houses and cars had bullet holes, insane, I'm amazed more people didn't die just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm actually living in Sacramento now. . . commuting to Stockton when I need to. I have houses in both cities, rental properties in Sacramento, clients in Stockton. I've lived in both cities for about 30 years each. . .

The bank that was robbed was the branch I most frequently use. I know both of the tellers who were kidnapped. The final shoot out occurred just six blocks from my Stockton house. My neighbor across the street said the gunshots sounded as if they were only a block away. No police officers were injured, 20 are out on administrative leave due to officer involved shooting, and 14 police cars are out of service due to severe bullet damage. Many civilian cars, homes, and businesses suffered bullet damage. The hostage who was killed, Misty Holt-Singh, worked in a dental office.

The scary part is that, on a normal 16th of the month at 2:10 PM or so, just after lunch, I would normally have been in that Bank of the West branch making a deposit! That date's the employees' mid-month payday at the dental office I manage under contract, and I cut a check to the partners and make my contract payment as well. . . which I deposit, after lunch, on my way to my house to feed my cats before leaving town. On that day, though, I was ill, so I remoted in to do the payroll except for the payroll liabilities, and had one of the partners print and sign the checks. Did I dodge a bullet?

As to violence in Stockton. I've had a murder on my block, and the once Mayor of Stockton lived two doors away from me. One block away to the east from the place where the shootout occurred on Otto Drive—which is actually entrance to an excellent middle-class neighborhood—is the neighborhood where the most drive-byes occur on Cody Drive, including several that have made national news. Here's a link to an incident I described from last year my girlfriend and I experienced in the strip mall where Harbor Freight Tools is located:

Incident on a Sunday Afternoon in Stockton.

It possibly could actually be Stockton's fault. Joan Darrah, a previous mayor (not my neighbor), a mouth-breathing Liberal idiot, when presented with voting on supporting the construction of a World class amusement park at the Mossdale Y of I-5 and I-205, said, and I quote, "Stockton doesn't need 1600 new minimum wage jobs! It needs better paying jobs," and voted against it. Another time, when backers had $275 million in hand for the construction of the World Wild Life Museum at the Stockton Deep Water Port, along with the promise of the donation of largest and finest collection of mounted specimens in the world, and after seven studies which all concluded that such a museum would draw hundreds of thousands of visitors, annually promote the construction of dozens of new hotels, restaurants, and create hundreds of jobs from minimum wage to management level, with the money backer promising to PULL OUT if the city council ordered another study (!), Mayor Darrah said, and I again quote, "Why would any one want to come look at poor dead animals?!” She then and there proposed another study, allocating $75,000, to compare whether building children's soccer fields on the site might not bring more tourists to Stockton, than the museum. The city council approved the soccer study, the money backer pulled his $275 million, and the owner of the animal collection withdrew the offer! I believe Seattle got it. Finally, our Congressman had worked hard to get a firm commitment—over seven other suitors—from the US navy to donate the Battleship USS Missouri to Stockton to be docked in the turning basin at Rough 'n' Ready Island. All Stockton had to do was accept it and build parking and access facilities, estimated cost of $7 million, which supporters were willing to raise privately. The mayor, in her ultimate Liberal wisdom, said, "Nobody is going to be interested in coming to look at a rusting hulk representing war mongering!" She added something about needing to "memorialize peace instead" and she and her idiot liberal cronies VOTED against accepting it.

The same city council has voted against offering tax incentives to attract business to Stockton. It's "unfair." The county board of supervisors is not much better.

ALL OF THOSE JOBS WENT ELSEWHERE THAN STOCKTON! Jobs these young men might have had!

And then they wonder why Stockton has the highest underlying unemployment rate in California? And a crime rate knocking on the ceiling? For a couple of years, Stockton and Detroit see-sawed for position as the #1 foreclosure Capitol of the US. Detroit won, they're bigger. . . but it wasn't for lack of Stockton's officials trying hard. Enough downers.

On the G5 tower. No on the power supply. It's a 990 Watt special switching PS from Apple but they're available on the secondary market. Unfortunately, you really can't do much with a PowerPC with VMWare. It's not an Intel processor. There were PCI Intel boards you could slap into them (Full MS Windows compatibility), or software emulation for Windows which worked OK (About 60% of the speed of a contemporary PC) if you absolutely needed some Windows apps. There were some Linux distributions for PowerPC processors, and a UNIX . . . but none of them virtualization.

I have a friend who may be willing to sell a second generation MacPro with 6GB of RAM (upgradeable to 32GB), dual Intel XEON 2.0 GHz processors, virtual Windows7 installed, I think, 1TB (?) plus another 250 GB (?) HDs I think. It cannot be upgraded beyond OSX.7.5 Lion that's installed on it. This MacPro used to run our 3D Cone Beam Computed Tomography (CBCT) RadioPanagraph and act as the radiography database server for the dental office. It's a quite powerful computer for a machine that came out in 2007. We sold it because we had to upgrade the office to OSX.8 Mountain Lion and later. He now wants to upgrade. Don't know what he wants. This vintage MacPros go for between $500 and $1000 on Craig's List or eBay.

Before I'd spend the money on that, I'd look at something like this:

You can buy a Refurbished 11.6-inch MacBook Air 2013 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 with 4GB memory and 128GB flash storage including a new one year warranty for just $719.00. That would be a better option. of course you can't tinker with the hardware but the OS is upgradeable for years to come, you can virtualize almost anything on it, it'll drive two 30" monitors (IIRC), Two USB 3 ports, support 42 simultaneous connected thunderbolt devices, 9 hour battery life, iLife suite, and iWork's, OSX.9 Mavericks. 2.38 lbs. RAM is not expandable.

My portable full computer is the 13" version of that. When I bought my refurb, it shipped out of Elk Grove.

[Swordmaker]

There is an open source project that has kept Firefox current specifically for PowerPC Macs. It is what we run on my old Dual G5 PowerMac that my wife uses. (TenFour Fox).

Lx may need a Tiger install disk for an iMac he's getting . . . and I'm not too sure I have one still. Do you have a spare?

[Lx]

The scary part is that, on a normal 16th of the month at 2:10 PM or so, just after lunch, I would normally have been in that Bank of the West branch making a deposit! That date's the employees' mid-month payday at the dental office I manage under contract, and I cut a check to the partners and make my contract payment as well. . . which I deposit, after lunch, on my way to my house to feed my cats before leaving town. On that day, though, I was ill, so I remoted in to do the payroll except for the payroll liabilities, and had one of the partners print and sign the checks. Did I dodge a bullet?

Someone is looking out for you. Of course I would say it was the kittehs who saved you since I love them but either way, you could have been too close or a human shield or simply dead or all three. Thank God and thank the kittehs!

Typical liberal thinking, a war mongering death machine but you could have built the Harvey Milk museum of tolerance and they would have rubber stamped it on the spot. I understand the role these (I'd be banned if I used the word I wanted to plus it's lazy writing) folks play in denying job growth but I would say that is tangential and the criminals caused the death. I'm sure we'll hear how they were just getting their lives together and there will be a peace march for them and nothing for the poor dental worker who was going about her business.

I was wondering if you lived in Sacramento or Stockton since I thought you live in Sacramento. It's not that bad a commute between the two even during the commuter hours and if your commute is backwards, even better. I've dealt with rental property before and you're a better man than I because I want to strangle people who destroy property, late with the rent I can deal with, wanton punches in walls makes me angry and I'm the one who would end up in jail if I threw them out. The final insult was after deciding to sell, someone stole the main breaker and some small ones and they were rare. It cost me $500 dollars in parts and about 1/2 hour of work and I was lucky they didn't just cut the wires short; of course now they'd steal the copper as well. I had a friend whose remote place was broken into and they stole the windings from a couple of motors. You would make more money working at a minimum wage job than the effort it takes to do that and these metal brokers know what the deal is, I don't know why they accept it (I do know why, money but...).

I like the Mac air, that's not a bad price. I'd drive to Elk Grove if they'd let me pick it up but shipping is so easy these days it's not worth the gas. I will look into that option as I putter with my new Mac when I hopefully pick it up Monday and find out what makes it go. Thanks for the research, that is a good price and I could justify buying it when my wife knows I've got computers coming out of my ears and there's really no need for another but it is worth developing a new skill set although I've got an Iphone I paid ATT $1 for new. If you know computers, it all makes sense, it's the same but different. The sad part is I never use its capabilities except in Europe where I've freeped from it. I don't text or Facebook so to me it's just a phone, a very nice one but I could still be happy with the first one I bought in '89 where I think it was either $1 a minute or 25 cents.

And to make it perfectly clear, you dodged a literal and physical bullet. Buy a lottery ticket even if you're like me and never gamble. ...and hug those kittehs and thank God as well, I'm too close just reading about it.

[Lx]

Is there (I know there is but I figure either of you know a good one) a quick place that describes the differences in these versions of O/S X? Thank you.

[Lx]

Finally, I must apologize for being such d*ck and treating you like a d-bag. you aren't and I was wrong.

I don't know what starts over something stupid like a computer architecture and I already know how good Macs are, I just never had management that wanted or needed them. These things mostly never have a winner but frequently two losers. Same thing with fighting in real life.

Funny thing is, I have somewhere still, a copy 2 PC board which gamers used to copy game disks but I don't game but the better part was being able to copy text files back and forth between a Mac and a DOS PC which I used to transfer files between a friend's Mac and my PC for our music. The same Mac that had the drive jam when he must have slammed the disk in and bent the mechanism.

[Swordmaker]

Finally, I must apologize for being such d*ck and treating you like a d-bag. you aren't and I was wrong.

Thanks for the apology. Same back. I knew you were a good guy. It's why I persisted.

Would you believe that 20 years ago I actually had someone who "Broke off the automatic mug holder" on a Mac 6200??? It was one of the volunteers at the Food Bank. Much earlier than that (mid 80's?) I also had to clean peanut butter and graham cracker out of the floppy drive slot of a PC for another client. ;^) so, I fully understand the damaged Mac drive. There are some users who believe that if it won't go in, get a hammer. . . and if it still won't go, bigger hammer time.