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To: rockrr

I hate to point out to the author a few facts that I am sure their limited knowledge of this time in american history is unaware, but I feel I must, since the ignorance is so deep that they believe the civil war was purely about nothing more than slavery.

2 States, West Virginia, and Maryland were both slave states and part of the Union, in fact author, West Virginia succeeded from Virginia purely because it did not want to succeed from the union... However upon its succession it did not abolish slavery within its borders.

African Americans fought and died on both sides of this conflict.

The overwhelming majority of southerners never did nor ever would own a slave.. Yes slavery was an abomination against humanity, but the idea that poor appalachian boys from hollers of Tennessee were willingly dying just to keep the blacks in their place is nonsense.

The Emancipation Proclamation, did not free one slave living in Maryland or WV or any other state in the Union. It was a political move that ensured Europe, who was contemplating entering the war on the side of the south would not get involved... very shrewed political move, but a political one none the less.

To dumb down the 70 year run up to the civil war as simply over slavery is just as if not more ignorant that those you attempt to mock. Do you know what the Nullifier movement was? How about the tariff of abominations? Or any of the other factors that played an ever building stress between the industrializing north and the agrarian south?

Now, to mock others ignorance, when yours is on display to see hopefully will make you go do some homework before you open your trap again.

As to the issue at hand, I don’t care if they erect a monument, put one up for the dead of both sides, because in spite of the dumbing down by fools like this author, this conflict still was the most deadly conflict in US History in terms of casualties by far... And whether you agree with one side or the other, they all need to be remembered because in spite of you and yours attempt to white wash this as a simple black and white issue (see what I did there?) It was far more complex and many a good man gave their “last full measure of devotion” on both sides. (See what I did there too?)


193 posted on 01/31/2014 12:58:00 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
However (WV) upon its succession it did not abolish slavery within its borders.

Inaccurate.

WV abolished slavery by state action in 1865. Its state constitution of 1863 had earlier provided for gradual emancipation.

MO abolished slavery by state action in January, 1865.

MD abolished slavery by state action in November, 1864.

In fact, all slaves except those in KY and DE (around 50,000) had been freed either by state action or by the Emancipation Proclamation before the ratification of the 13th Amendment in Dec. 1865. Or 98.75% of all slaves.

poor appalachian boys from hollers of Tennessee were willingly dying just to keep the blacks in their place is nonsense

Most of the mountain boys of Tennessee fought on the Union side, at least if given the opportunity and not forced into the CSA Army by conscription.

In 1860 around 1/3 of southern white families owned slaves. In fact, in two states, MS and SC, they were a majority of white families or very nearly.

The actual numbers are easily found farther up this thread. I don't think 2/3 as non-slaveowners qualifies as a "vast majority" by any logical standard.

I agree fully with your final paragraph.

194 posted on 01/31/2014 1:59:24 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: HamiltonJay; rockrr
HamiltonJay to rockrr: "I hate to point out to the author a few facts that I am sure their limited knowledge of this time in american history is unaware, but I feel I must, since the ignorance is so deep that they believe the civil war was purely about nothing more than slavery."

Since you are a self-professed "expert", I'm certain you already know the basic facts:

  1. Beginning immediately after the Presidential Election of November 6, 1860, Deep South secessionists began meeting and soon declaring secession from the United States.
    Every document on the subject shows that their reasons for secession were, "purely about nothing more than slavery".
    The United States government under out-going President Buchanan took no actions to stop secession.

  2. Simultaneously, secessionists began provoking war with the United States by seizing dozens of major Federal properties -- i.e., forts, arsenals, ships, mints.
    At first, the US government made no response to such provocations.

  3. On March 3, 1861, Confederate President Davis ordered military preparations to seize US Fort Sumter.
    On March 6, the new Confederate Congress authorized raising 100,000 troops -- at a time when the entire US Army was barely 25,000 strong with most scattered in forts out west.

  4. In the mean time, on March 4 President Lincoln appealed for peace and harmony in his Inaugural Address:

      "We are not enemies, but friends.
      We must not be enemies.
      Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
      The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battle-field, and patriot grave, to every living heart and hearth-stone, all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

  5. In April 1861, the new Confederacy started war with the United States by a military assault on federal troops in federal Fort Sumter.
    President Lincoln then called for 75,000 Union troops to recover federal properties seized by secessionists.

  6. See post #173 above for a summary of Confederate responses, culminating in its formal declaration of war on May 6, 1861.

  7. All of this happened before a single Confederate soldier had been killed in battle with any Union force, and before any Union army invaded a single Confederate state.
    The first battle deaths came on June 10, 1861.

Bottom line: the Deep South slave-power declared its secession "purely about nothing more than slavery".
But that alone did not cause Civil War.
Civil War came because those secessions first provoked, then started and formally declared war on the United States, on May 6, 1861.

At that point their fate was sealed, and Unconditional Surrender their only option.
Slavery was then utterly doomed, and Confederate states generally condemned to generations of relative poverty.

Of course, I'm certain you already know that, right?

198 posted on 02/01/2014 5:54:58 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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