Posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:11 AM PST by Colofornian
It’s three days to Christmas, 2008. And the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News is at it yet once again:
”In 1844, there were approximately 26,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yet, when W.W. Phelps penned a song of tribute to his beloved, fallen Prophet, he promised that ‘millions shall know Brother Joseph again’” [My note: The ‘song of tribute’ is an actual praise song directed TO Joseph Smith, ‘Praise to the Man’...for more on this, see Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]]
The DesNews article continues:
"...Now known not only to the millions of members of the LDS Church, but also by countless more around the world, Joseph Smith has taken a unique and respected place in American and religious history...An advance copy of the CD was presented to President Thomas S. Monson...He reminisced about serving as a mission president in Toronto, ‘the only area outside his own, where Joseph Smith taught.’ He also noted that he's always appreciated the fact that Joseph Smith was born in the season in which we celebrate the birth of Christ...And at this season, he's happy that our thoughts can be drawn to Joseph Smith. ‘He gave us everything.’"
So the current Mormon "prophet" – three days before Christmas and one day before Joseph Smith's birthday – pronounces that Joseph Smith "gave us everything?"
What does that look like to the average non-Mormon?
Yup, that's right: Merry Smithmas!
In the previous two years, Lds "apologist" Daniel C. Peterson has tried – in vain – to develop a "we don't celebrate 'Smithmas'" apologetic.
This was his blog effort in 2012: Merry Smithmas!
And two years ago today--Dec. 22, 2011-- Peterson jumpstarted a forum at Mormondialogue.com jon the same subject: "Celebration of Smithmas." In this forum, Peterson eventually declares that "Oh, Smithmas is definitely an invention of our apostate critics..." Another poster, a writer with the Deseret News (Scott Lloyd), stated on Jan. 3, 2012 on this same forum thread that: "It is clear from discussion in this thread that the 'Smithmas' notion is a fantasy invented from whole cloth by antagonists for political purposes."
Yet the ironic aspect is that Peterson himself – on Dec. 22, 2011 -- acknowledged how he personally celebrates "Smithmas" in the original forum post on "Smithmas":
"In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..."
Peterson didn't hold back in declaring the same thing on his Nov. 30, 2012 blog on the topic.
Well, at another Mormon forum – Mormondiscussions.com – Mormon poster "Aristotle Smith" couldn't but help note the extreme irony, quoting Peterson's blog twice [Note: "DCP" = Daniel C. Peterson]:
"...after denying vehemently that Mormons worship Joseph Smith and celebrate Smithmas, DCP then talks about what he and his family do every December 23rd: Quote: So far from the truth is it that my wife and I, ten or so years back, decided to host a small birthday party for Joseph Smith at our home every 23 December. We thought it sad that, amidst all the busyness and commercialism of Christmas, his signal contribution to our lives and faith usually went altogether unmentioned. We may have missed a year or two since then — though I’m not sure of that — and we’ll be out of state this year, but, for the most part, we’ve continued this newly-invented custom annually. Our birthday party typically involves a potluck dinner, something about Joseph Smith, and then . . . Christmas carols and Christmas hymns. (We include among those we’ve usually invited some good and exceptionally musical friends — e.g., a composer with a doctorate in musicology, a former professional opera singer, a music teacher and member of the Tabernacle Choir with a master’s degree in choral conducting, and several members of recorded choral groups — so it’s a real treat for us.) [Aristotle Smith then adds]: So the proof that Mormons don't celebrate Smithmas is...the fact that DCP is the biggest purveyor of Smithmas. My irony meter exploded when in the very next paragraph after the quoted paragraph above was this: Quote: If anybody out there can point to specific examples of “Smithmas” in his or her experience, I would appreciate hearing about them. [Aristotle Smith finishes his Dec. 2, 2012 post with]: "Um, yeah, try your own blog post."
In the 2011 discussion two years ago today, Mormon poster Cobalt -70 reacted to Peterson's announcement about his personal "Smithmas" parties:
"...I hope it doesn't catch on. If Smith were born some time other than two days before Christmas, then that would be great. But anything that celebrates both Joseph Smith with Jesus in the same context is not a good thing for Mormon PR."
In the same forum, Jan. 2, 2012, Mormon poster Sethbag noted: "...I think that IMHO an inordinate amount of attention is paid to Joseph Smith. He's been succeeded as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator what, fifteen times now? And yet Joseph Smith probably gets more airtime in LDS circles than all of his successors put together, probably by some large multiple. Whether Smithmas is real or not, the amount of attention paid to the founder of the religion sure is pretty freaking high." Sources of above two quotes: See: See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/
"Xmas" is an abbreviated version of "Christmas." What's LMOS? It's an acronym for Local Manifestations of Smithmas!
While most of "Smithmas" flows from Utah cities like Salt Lake City, Provo (BYU), and Logan (Lds' Religion Institute at Utah State), this chart below shows LMOS – Local Manifestations of Smithmas – do occur.
For example, what do the years 2012, 2007, 2001, 1990, 1979 – or even a year going all the way back to 1894 -- all have in common?
Answer: The so-called "Christmas" service in Mormondom fell upon Joseph Smith's Dec. 23 birthday!
You see, Mormonism doesn't offer "special" Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services to celebrate that incarnational event unless it happens to fall on a Sunday -- Sabbath day.
So, over the past 187 years of the existence of the Mormon Church, that Sabbath has an equal chance of falling on either Jesus' birthday -- or Joseph Smith's. And as to which Historic person gets more attention that year could depend upon whose birthday falls closest to that fourth Sunday in December!
Well, in 1894, Joseph Smith's nephew, Joseph F. Smith, also a "living prophet" of the Mormon church, advocated that Mormons should celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday: This, too, was recommended on a Sabbath -- Dec. 23, 1894 – a day which could be sourced as the festive "jumpstart" of "Smithmas!" [See MormonHeritage.com]
This very tension within Mormonism leads to some uncomfortable moments among Mormons come Dec. 23...Like the years 1979 and 2001.
Mormondialogue forum poster Rameumptom was reminiscing earlier this month about such a special "Smithmas" year, Dec. 23, 1979:
"I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) (MormonDialogue.org)
And when Smith's birthday rose up again on Sabbath Day, 2001, Mormon poster "Backpew" at NewOrderMormon.org relayed his/her experience earlier that day:
"I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen....It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, 'A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses....' 'the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it...' I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, 'I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today,' yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." (NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] Note: "GBH" = Gordon B. Hinckley
Indeed, many Mormons simply feel out of place in the Mormon Church.
| DATE | COMMENTARY | LINK/SOURCE | Additional Commentary | |
| 2013 | A Mormon thread overseer attempts to engage in Morpologetics, yet manages to stir up either wonderment that such a "Smithmas" recognition "out there" exists (at times, the discussion takes on a "Does Santa Claus exist?" flavor re: the existence of "Smithmas"). One Mormon poster recalls the 2005 BYU Joseph Smith nativity scene: "JKWilliams: As I recall, BYU had a sort of 'Joseph Smith Manger' scene set up that Christmas season, which to me was a bit unseemly" On page one of this forum, one poster discusses Lds Morpologist Daniel Peterson's 2012 attempt to dismiss the "Smithmas" trend: "Dan makes the obvious point that among the Latter-day Saints, there is scarcely ever a mention of the birth of Joseph Smith at this time of year, let alone an observance of it that overshadows Christmas." | MormonDialogue.org: Smithmas... | This despite the fact that Daniel C. Peterson himself has blogged that his family has friends-over for Joseph Smith birthday parties for the past 10-15 years! | |
| 2012 (Nov. 30) | Poster Aristotle Smith: "I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all. So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. Aristotle Smith's "irony meter" also exploded in commenting upon Lds apologist's comments from a then-recently released blog about "Smithmas" | MormonDiscussions.com: Will Smithmas return this year? | Beyond the excerpt above, ya gotta read some of the humor of this thread...click on the above link | |
| 2011 (Dec. 22) | Lds morpologist jumpstarts thread in which he concedes his family personally celebrates Joseph Smith's birthday on an annual basis. It has all the "pine tree" scent of "Smithmas" – though Peterson doesn't like that name. Peterson writes: "In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..." | See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/ | See comments in above article | |
| 2010 (March 4) | Pam, head moderator: "Who, then, is the 'root of Jesse'? It appears that the Prophet Joseph Smith is both the 'rod' and the 'root' that will come from Jesse…" | 2 Nephi 21 | For more on this, see: D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2009 (Dec. 24) | Mormon columnist Doug Gibson: "...every December around Christmastime, sacrament turns into a bummer, at least for me. Almost every year, Jesus Christ seems to be a bit player. I don’t know who is to blame. Maybe bishoprics are instructed to have “Christmas Sunday” appear as just another Sabbath in the ward house, with a couple of religious carols thrown in the mix as a nod to the holiday...Every year I convince myself we’re going to have a real Christmas Sunday with talks on the Lord’s birth and the congregation singing Christmas carols along with the ward choir, and, well… There are not-too-subtle conflicts...the prophet’s birthday is Dec. 23.Although Joseph Smith, for all his recognition, is not the same as Jesus Christ,there have been occasions where “Praise to the Man” is sung more often than “Away in the Manger” on Christmastime Sunday. But most of the time there’s just a maddeningly frustrating neutrality about Christmas, Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ. Take the most recent sacrament meeting. The opening song was “The First Vision,” and then the bishop reminded us that during this season we should remember the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. That seemed an appropriate nod to the man and I was encouraged that there were two Christmas carols and three talks left on the program. But the talks, which bookended a ward choir Christmas carol, were not about Christ’s birth, although they did capture His spirit. They were well-prepared, informative and spiritual talks that would have been appropriate for any sacrament meeting, but why can’t we have had talks about the birth of Christ? Is there some edict against it? ... Christ shouldn’t get the bump like a diet book author waiting his turn on a Letterman show that runs too long. | Doug Gibson, Utah Mormon columnist: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting; see also: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Mormons, isn't it time to have a "real Christmas Sunday?" Come worship in a church this season that truly honors the birth of the Lord Jesus. Christmas is for Jesus Christ. Honoring Him. Don't 'bump' him 'like a diet book author waiting his turn' on an over-extended Letterman show. | |
| 2008 (Dec. 1) | Blog: "The two hundredth anniversary of Joseph Smith’s birth is three years past, and the hand wringing of Smith-centric sacrament meetings in December (Christmas infringement!) is mostly abated. Still, it shouldn’t be a surprise that commemorating the birth and life of the Prophet of the Restoration is part of our liturgical calendar, ad hoc and informal though it may be." | Bycommonconsent.com: 'Joseph and Jesus' | Call it what you will: Smith-centricism; Christmas infringement; the eclipse of Christmas; or, just plain "Smithmas" | |
| 2007 (Dec. 21) | Don, BYU business management grad and former Lds missionary to Guatamala: "Regardless, the 'root of Jesse' is almost surely the Prophet Joseph Smith. He holds the keys of this kingdom in both time and eternity and is the president of the last and greatest of all dispensations, the dispensation of the fulness of times. (See D&C 27:12-13; 90:1-3;112:30-32; 128:18-21) He is the living ensign to which the present generation must gather. We cannot, in reality, come to Christ if we do not accept his servant, Joseph Smith. "The Lord's works are first spiritual and then temporal, or physical. (See D&C 29:31-32) All of the spiritual keys, powers, doctrines, and ordinances revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith must be honored and implemented before Zion, the second ensign, can be literally established in fullness and glory. (See D&C 64:41-43; 105:3-5) That day is not far off (Witness of Jesus Christ: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Old Testament, Richard D. Draper. See ch. 14 "The Two Davids"). So any hope I had of finding a definitive answer on who the rod and branch is or are, is lost in a sea of opinions. It could be Christ or Joseph Smith or a powerful Jewish leader named David." | Isaiah 11 & 12: The Rod, Stem of Jesse, the Branch and the Roots | "Oh come, Oh come, EmmanSMITHuel? See D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2007 (Sept. 16) | This blog addresses some Mormons dismissals that they celebrate "Smithmas": "Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there? Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t. In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch. In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on...The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel..." | Timesandseasons.org: Praising the man; see also: Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Iconic adoration of Joseph Smith – and a previous hymnal edition that had even more praise songs to Joseph Smith | |
| 2005 (Dec. 19) | A grassroots Mormon makes mention of Joseph Smith-centrism, 'Praise to the Man,' and the Joseph Smith Nativity creche at BYU that month | ByCommonConsent.com: "Dealing with Smithmas"; see also: "Dealing with “Smithmas” [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith] | See: Joseph Smith Nativity [A Virtual 'Merry Smithmas' 'Greeting Card' circa 2005] | |
| 2005 (Feb. 10) | These are original quotes from Mormon leaders that insert Joseph Smith in place of Jesus Christ as the way to heaven | MormonCurtain.com: Reasons Joseph Smith is More Important Than Jesus; see also: Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | See How would YOU score on this 26-question quiz about 'Smithmas?' [Vanity, Part A] and Chart entitled: "Mormon leader proclamations where the 'confession' is about Joseph Smith – and usually mentions/implies Smith as the 'Way' -- the 'consent'[er] or passport" in Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity] | |
| Previous Sample Years: 2001 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Poster "January" comments: "Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I went to church today, too, and yes, lots of very dull, ill-prepared music and minimal decoration. I went with a pretty bad attitude, but it is lame that one of the two most important holidays in all Christendom just is like any other Sunday at our church. It would help if our chapels at least looked like churches, the stained glass alone at other churches gets me in a worshipful mood. I am looking forward to going a Protestant Christmas eve ceremony tomorrow." Poster "backpew" then described his Dec. 23 experience: "I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen..... It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, "A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses...." "the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it..." I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, "I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today," yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." |
NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. | |
| Previous Sample Years: 1979 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Rameumptom, 2013 about 1979: "I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) | MormonDialogue.org | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. |
born again evangelical.
____________________________________
SIGH
scripture please...from the Bible..
Is the word “evangelical” in there ...NO
You see your Mormon buddies are very particular about what is in the Bible and what is not..and for them only the KJV is valid.. so
while they kidnap our word Christian for themselves they attempt to strip us of any appearance of Godly power by mockingly force untaught baby Christians accept “evangelical” as a term of religion..
Our religion is Christianity, and there are 2 main groups of Christians Catholic and Protestant..but no “evangelicals..Mormons are not Protestants so they don’t refer to us as Protestants either..
Under Protestant there are Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans and so on..but no evangelicals ...and no Mormonism and no Islam
The LORD Jesus Christ never told you to be an “evangelical”
He told you to be born again yes John 3:3, 7,
but He also told you to believe John 3:15, 16, 18, Mark 16:16
and He told you to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature Mark 16:15
but He didn’t tell you to “evangelize”
Next we could move onto a term which is in the Bible...the KJV..evangelist (s)
However again we have a problem for only “some” are called to be evangalists.. Ephesians 4:11
And because of the rules of the forum I must say it this way..
I don’t think you are an evangelist in accordance with the Bible of any version..
Next we move onto the term Christian etc..
the apostles were first called Christians Christlike in Antioch because why ?? well they were doing what Christ did..they were preaching and teaching and laying hands on the sick and people were being healed and they were casting the devils out of Mormons..so they were called Christians..
Christian is in the Bible but and I am forced to say in my opinion it doesnt seem you are prepared to cast those religious devils out of Mormons and set them free to worship the LORDS Jesus Christ..
but Elsie is..she exposes those Hellish devils of Mormonism every day in this forum..thats love kid..that’s concern.. that’s compassion on the prisoners of the devil..thats Christian..
But meanwhile you mentioned breakfast..
Yes why don’t you trot into the kitchen and make Elsie and me some bacon and eggs..heavy on the meat its cold weather..
I take milk and 2 teaspoons of sugar in my coffee..
I’m so sorry about your cousin ..
nobody should have to endure such evil from the religious leaders they trust..
Mormonism is a sham ..
It is the love of God that empowers us to live in this world..
when we know that God loves us individually we can overcome..
I continually asked Mormons for years if God loved them..
I got no answer from Resty or Sandy or others..
the love of God appears to be alien to Mormons because they don’t think they measure up they don’t think they are worthy of being loved by God..
and yet God Himself tells us that He loved us enough to leave Heaven and die an ignoble death for us on the Cross in our place to redeem us from the death penalty for our sins...
Now everyone knows and wants to quote this next Bible scripture..
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.. John 3:16
But what about the followon verse ???
FOR GOD SENT NOT HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED John 3:17
Mormonism is hateful and condemns
Christianity is of God and the love of God..
Whats that “greatest of these” its CHARITY 1 Corinthians 13:13
the word charity is a bit different than love in that it is an old words not used much these days except in the realm of giving to the needy etc..
However the way charity is used in the Bible involves more than that..
Charity in Shakespearian times meant forgiving, compassion etc..
That’s why Paul said charity was the greatest amongst faith, hope, charity..
While charity does mean love and giving the greatest thing God did for us was FORGIVE..
that’s what the love of God means..
Paul tells us that charity is more than just giving.. In 1 Corinthians 13:3 that we can give the hunger and the poor everything we own and it still may not be charity...
the charity kind of love is not squishy and fluffy and its not arguing its OK to be a homosexual or a Mormon ..
Its knowing that there is forgiveness when we repent and turn from our sin..
your cousins husband and those Mormon leaders did not even act like your cousin was entitled to forgiveness if they thought she was caught up in some sin.. they condemned her and judged her and told her she was unworthy ..
and yet the LORD Jesus Christ made her worthy TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO when He left Heaven came down to be born as a human baby, grew up and died on the Cross and rose again the 3rd day..
He paid then for any sin your cousin may have committed real or imagined..
But the unbelieving Mormons did not have charity towards her because they could not understand that God loved her and died for her as they don’t know that for themselves and so now her blood is on their hands..
The love of God the charity and forgiveness is so much my life ...it keeps me going ..it helps me be an overcomer..it helps me have compassion and charity to others..
we can love others in the Godly manner..charity..because He first loved us ..1 John 4:19
But we have to KNOW for ourselves that He first loved us.. if we don’t we fail at charity..you cant pass on what you don’t have..
some people in this forum can go days without contact with God..I cant..
I need Him every hour..
I hunger for His Word and I enjoy
I need His reassurance that He loves me and that Im special to Him..
Yup; you've said this. Over and over and in many ways.
Scripture and others experience has shown the side you say is not very effective.
Now, I think, is time for you post a way that IS effective.
You have an audience of MORMONs waiting.
Sometimes...
Maybe...
as long as it's translated correctly...
Mormonism's very first Living Prophet re-'translated' the KJV with the help his god.
Why doesn't SLC call IT 'scripture'?
“Scripture and others experience has shown the side you say is not very effective.”
Well thats just not true. The SBC is the only denomination whose membership isn’t plummeting and its the method they use.
Heck the number of Christians in China and Africa is growing rapidly because of the tactics & methods I’ve been taught.
Folks like you are screaming to each other inside empty bankrupt churches.
you have a one track mind, kinda like satan
I have a one track mind just like God...
Homosexuality and Mormonism are both equally repugnant to God and me..
oh yeah
there is that “right in the main” thingy etc
but the KJV is important to Mormons also because they think they can twist those Shakespearian words to mean something different a whole lot easier that plain modern English..
So now you’re God?
don’t you know ???
know what? that you’re God?
You may have confused her with our FRiends: the MORMONs...
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
Oh?
You've been TAUGHT?
Then I think THIS must apply to you:
Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by now you should be teachers...
I've ASKED you to show us HOW to reach those folks with love, yet you seem reluctant to do so.
Not reluctant at all, just following my Lords guidance on throwing wisdom before swine.
reluctant
yes there is that thingy about being quick to answer...
be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear 1 Peter 3:15
then theres that bit about those unwise foolish virgins who were not ready who didn’t have oil in their lamps..Matthew 25:3
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I'll give you an oink or two, and perhaps you are right.
But WHY do you do a disservice to any LURKERS who are seeing your reluctance to speak LOVE to those lost in the deception that calls itself Mormonism?
So far, in your posts, these two verses come to mind...
"Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." Rev. 12
I remind you that this position is already taken, despite the continued criticisms in your posts on this thread.
“Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.” 1 John 3:18
Where's the beef??!
Please demonstrate the "correct Baptist evangelization process" that will bring many, many mormons to HIM. They need salvation. Why are your posts failing to demonstrate this superior process?
Because you and the other active posters on this thread have heard it before and rejected it. Your personal message and agenda is your priority, not Gods message.
“Because you and the other active posters on this thread have heard it before and rejected it.”
That’s just it, we haven’t rejected it.
“Your personal message and agenda is your priority, not Gods message.
Mindreading. Tsk. Tsk. Back to accusing the Brethren...
At least share how many mormons you’ve led to Christ using the approved Baptist method...
I don’t keep a log of which religions people are. My tally sheet doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the Lords book.
Ya see its not about me. Its about bring lost people to Christ.
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