Posted on 10/30/2013 9:56:36 AM PDT by hoagy62
I was speaking with Mrs. Hoagy62 this morning about some of the threads I was seeing here on FR. There is a LOT of things being said about defense in the face of tyranny, tactics to be used when going up against tyrannical forces, and general commentary about what one does in certain situations.
One of the things that I found a little disturbing is the thought that one should target families of those who may be in the employ of the government/military/police forces on the opposite side of a possible CWII conflict. I refer to the comment on the "Breaking MRAPS" thread that "Families of operators don't sleep in the MRAP".
Would we, being the 'moral' people that conservatives claim to be, be willing to stoop to levels that we'd expect our enemies to go to? "If Joe Policeman takes up arms against us, we'll blow up his wife and kids! That'll larn'em!".
If that is how we're planning to respond....what makes US any different from THEM?
We tout our respect for human life, respect for the laws of God, and desire to be law-abiding citizens of a free land. However, when you're openly or almost-openly speaking of blowing up your enemy's families...doesn't that go against the very core of what we're about?
Yes....I acknowledge that the forces that might be arrayed against us would be willing to blow away OUR families. Even so...do we want to become LIKE our enemies? Do we want to be as cold and ruthless as they? If we make the claim that we're better then them, would we be?
Would we then be fighting for a lie?
Even though it's a fictional tale, on the show "Babylon 5" when the forces of a Free Earth fought back against the forces of President Clark, Capt. Sheridan made it clear that only those who actually took up arms against them were the ones who would be punished. He went out of his way to make sure that those who weren't involved in the fighting were spared from it as much as was possible.
If the conflict that many are sure is coming actually happens, will we be willing to discard our morals? Will we be willing to use terror and deadly force against families of those we don't agree with?
Do we really want to go there?
Tyrants will still hate freedom.
/johnny
5.56mm
Us: People who are individualists, self-reliant, moral, mannered (more or less), liberty-minded individuals who know what 'freedom' truly is. We adhere to a document called The United States Constitution.
Them: Collectivsts, who want to cram everyone into a common mold (themselves excepted, of course), cheerleaders of the welfare state, immoral, purveyors of 'social justice' (whatever that is) and 'the international community' (which doesn't exist). The Constitution for them is mainly an impediment.
Granted, that's pretty black and white. But you get the idea.
Note that this definition reveals a flaw in your position, since with lines drawn as such, the liberal will not save your life because he will be the one trying to kill you. Because you're 'too rich' or some other excuse.
And yeah, there'll be exceptions to that. There always are.
Not trying to be disagreeable, but those are just words.
IF - and I said IF - SHTF, are you gonna not let a Doctor treat you because he is a “liberal”?
In the event of SHTF, actually, I don’t want a lot of “freedom” for people.
“Freedom” for what? To come and take my stuff?
If SHTF, the first thing people need is food, the next thing is organization. A people accustomed to “freedom” don’t want to be told it’s their turn to do the laundry.
A “free” people used to a Burger-King like “Have it your way” attitude will not easily adapt to being instructed about what needs to get done.
The rule - and the ONLY rule - won’t have anything to do with politics. It will be the rule of necessity. And in some cases, necessity will be very, very, very brutal.
That is your opinion. Historically, it's not very accurate.
We've had a civil war in this country before.
/johnny
/johnny
The enemy was clear.
It was pretty much based on geography.
No such distinction exists now.
Can't disagree with that. Post #31 sums it up pretty well.
You are saying that this would be one of ever-varying shades of gray. If you re-read my posts, you will see that I also say this.
And if the liberal doc saves my life, great. Now I know who I can trust. But as I pointed out earlier (and I guess you missed it), he's more likely to kill me.
So the ONLY rule will have something to do with politics. Something.
hoagy62, your words and the sentiment that drives them is admirable.
Just want to point out that, if we are to win, we MUST be prepared to fight more fiercely than our enemy.
The Outlaw Josie Wales, when the family is holed-up in the adobe house that was their destination, waiting for the impending attack...”you got to get mean.”
We need to get mean.
Do we know that the Christian thing to do is turn the other cheek? Yep. But, I’m all out cheeks.
Must we be prepared to deliver back to them what has been visited upon us? You bet.
We don’t need revenge. But, we do need victory.
In other civil wars/civil disturbances, combatants tend to self-identify.
/johnny
Actually the two sides would be similar to CW I: it's city vs. country. Communists mostly grow up in very high population density, Americans mostly grow up in low population density. The suburbs are a mixed bag. Wipe out LA, Chicago, NYC, and the hostilities would effectively be over. Hack the food stamp system and the 'rats will burn their own nests to the ground.
People need to be reminded what war is. War is not a game of kill a few and precision strikes. War is the Mass bloodletting of an enemy population, Men, Women, and sadly children. War is ugly, War is brutal, War is not something to contemplate lightly. Should this actually come to bullets flying (and I pray every night that GOD in heaven will help our country find its way back to HIM) I will not play at War ,but will Wage War with the best of my ability, the last of my strength and the last of my breath. I will show liberals, democrats, communists and the rest of those that want to destroy my country EXACTLY what WAR is. May GOD have mercy on them for I will not.
a conservative will offer to work to pay for the food and or help a liberal expects it as his due
I don’t see there being any choice. There are two ways to fight a war and actually win it. Exterminate the other side completely, or break their will to fight so thoroughly they beg you to allow them to surrender. Anything less and they’ll do the same to you.
Sucks, but it’ll be on them if they start it.
I understand your post, but may I ask exactly what I am ignorant of in American History? I am not trying to be disrespectful....I ask to gain information. I really thought I knew my history pretty well. Where do I lack?
Thank you.
I do apologize for that particular turn of phrase. I was going for a caricature which was likely inaccurate. That was not correct on my part.
I look at myself and suspect that if my wife or kids were in danger, I’d fight like a honey badger to protect them.
I understand your post, but may I ask exactly what I am ignorant of in American History?
Go back and watch “The Patriot” again, and pay attention to what the Indians did to the settlers at the behest of the French, and what Americans did to the Indians and the French when they caught them; and what it did to the souls of the participants.
Look up what happened in Kansas and Missouri during CWI when “irregulars” on both sides raided the other side. Look up what Sherman’s march to the sea actually did to Georgia -— men, women, and children starved.
We are now living in a “soft tyranny”, subject to more laws and regulations than a person can read in a lifetime. Liberals live in the fantasy world bubble where they can write laws to right any perceived wrong, ignore unintended consequences, and think themselves civilized by ignoring the fact that men with guns are there to enforce them.
When they cross the line into a hard tyranny, it is a legitimate strategy to make them feel unsafe as quickly as possible, to shock them with atrocities, and burst their bubble. If you don’t believe that works, look up how Ireland gained its independence.
When Jefferson said that the tree of liberty had to be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, he wasn’t kidding. Non-the-less, I will weep.
I did not mean any disrespect but I think that Americans have turned on Americans in the past in ways that are horrid and unthinkable or at least were until clinton/elrenio and obama were elected. Several references to these times and events appear in this thread already. Watch Mel Gibson in the PATRIOT and you will see that some of the fiercest American fighters did not raise a hand until their own families were brutally murdered in pol pot fashion.
The only thing that has kept America bonded together in harmony was a common vision and trust in those elected to oversee and protect that way of life... that no longer exists. Only a fool trusts anyone but GOD today and well... one America wants to become the soviet union and the other part wants our GOD gifted Freedoms to endure. We are no longer compatible and I see nothing on the horizon to stop what is coming... but prayer. I pray many times a day for this great republic. This is all that we have left to stop what most likely will be the end result.
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