A Legal Review of Secession, 150 Years Later

survivalblog.com ^ | 11-14-12 | Terry E. Hogwood

[dynachrome]

Conclusions

Under present federal Supreme Court jurisprudence: •The union which is the United States can never be dissolved by an independent action of one state (unless approved by Congress and/or the other states?) • An individual state may never secede. Apparently, only people rebel - the states remain a part of the Union. • Secession can be successful only if accomplished by force of arms (or agreement of the other states/Congress).

[dynachrome]

50/50 split equals “bleeding Kansas”. A large majority equals secession or not.

[Bratch]

Secession: Confederacy of Dunces Plays into Media's Hands

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How many Americans have died to protect this country and to keep us united? But what… because we lost a couple of elections and gained an ObamaCare we're going to grab our marbles and crybaby all the way home to Texahomastan? Wanting to cut and run from the fight for your country is cowardice.

I'm sorry we live in a world where a biased media can take a fringe movement and tie it like a can to our tails, but this is the world we live in, which means that sometimes we have to very publicly point to these crybaby cowards and laugh at them, as though they were Alec Baldwin in 2004, packing for Canada.

Because if we don't do this, the media's going to make us own them, whether we want to own them or not.

These people are not only cowards for giving up the fight; they also get in the way of the fight, because the media uses them to constantly put us on defense and define who we are.

Let the secessionists leave the Republican Party, or whatever the threat is this time. We have to immediately mock and marginalize these people, not coddle lunacy and sympathize with stupid. At least if they can't be associated with the conservative movement, they're somebody else's problem.

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[INVAR]

It was illegal and high treason to rebel against the lawful, legal authority of the Crown of England under King George III and to defy his edicts and ‘laws’.

It was an even greater act of sedition and treason to suggest that the Colonies were of right, ought to be free and independent states from the Crown. We would define that today as secession. The Founders seceded from the Union established with England for over 150 years before July 2nd 1776.

It was settled by our Founders who took a risk of death for treason to declare that the Crown no longer had any legal authority over them. Once the legal authority was imposing tyranny and usurping the rights of liberty granted by God, the prince no longer had authority under God to rule over a free people.

Once the State/Crown - made itself higher than God’s Laws, then the people are no longer obligated to submit to such authority - and have, by right the duty to throw off such government and secure new guards for their liberty.

Secession is what our Founders initiated. It was a risk with a low chance of success - but it was decided by enough Godly and principled men that liberty was more important than life in chains and risked death to secure God’s authority as sovereign over their lives.

So why should we be any different just because the federal tyranny says, like the King of England, that Independence from their rule and authority is treason and unlawful?

If we would die free men, then their courts, congress and His Heinous Obama - have no power over us that we who are under the Law of Nature’s God, are required to submit to.

All they have is the ability to impose their tyranny by brute force and punishment. If we submit to such authority then we have broken the First Commandment and the Lord of Hosts is no longer our Sovereign.

If the Creator is our Sovereign - then we have as a duty to refuse, resist and not comply with those acts of tyranny being imposed by the threat of force.

If the Chinese invaded and put a gun to your head and said “submit to us or else!” would you cower - or resist? There is NO DIFFERENCE between a foreign enemy that would put a gun to your head and that of your family while confiscating your property - and the Domestic federal enemy who is doing the same damn thing.

They have no power over a free people except that which the people willingly surrender to them. Their laws, orders, decrees and rules are no longer of any authority over a people they intend to subjugate.

Do not comply. Refuse. Resist. Die free.

And that is what it may come to.

[Inyo-Mono]

How does a state secede? It just says it secedes and that’s it? What do the people do who don’t want to secede but still want to live in their state?

My great-grandfather and his brother were living in Virginia in 1861 when it seceded from the Union. My great-grandfather joined a militia group of the Confederate States. By 1863, their part of the state had broken off and become West Virginia. His younger brother joined the Union Army and fought against his own brother and neighbors.

[tpmintx]

But, obviously, not all the people of a state will want secession. How does a state secede? It just says it secedes and that’s it? What do the people do who don’t want to secede but still want to live in their state? Would there be a civil war within the state? It can’t be a simple matter. It seems like there would be a lot of legal issues to iron out. I live in Louisiana and would love to see it secede, but I have a lot of friends and relatives who don’t agree. To me, it seems mind boggling.

There are still areas within Texas that are divided along lines that were created by the referendum in Feb, 1861.

[KrisKrinkle]

“A large majority equals secession or not.”

Majority of what? City, township, county, neighborhood?

Once you start secession, why would it have to end at the level of the State? What prevents areas within a State from seceding from the State?

[Arthur McGowan]

The claim that secession is not possible is utterly preposterous. It means the nullification of one of the "self-evident truths" enunciated in the Declaration of Independence. It implies that, with the ratification of the Constitution, a system of government came into being which was and is not only perfect, but perfectly incorruptible, such that the government it established is forever incapable of becoming oppressive and illegitimate.

Supreme Court "jurisprudence" that does not recognize the natural right of secession is merely gas emitted by the putrefying corpse of the government established in 1789.

[dynachrome]

I belive some counties have tried to secede to neighboring states. dunno how well they did.

[NTHockey]

If secession is illegal, then a) revolution is the only alternative to redress wrongs and b)states are indeed subservient to the federal government, contrary to the Constitution.

[Arthur McGowan]

Practicality. I.e., when the people judge that it is prudent either to do so, or not. And nothing else. That, too, is right there in the Declaration.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

America's Elite Class New Normal:

I remember.

The 1960s Marxist-Alinsky campus radical, psycho spoiled brats were celebrated in the establishment MSM as the most intelligent generation ever!. They are now arguably that very establishment that praised them and they hold themselves and their ideological issue in even higher regard.

You initiated a policy to tolerate the Marxist-Alinsky radicals and let them rant; not only has it not ceased but was constantly augmented by decades of infiltration and indoctrination. You now have two Americas. In my opinion, it will not cease until a crisis shall have been reached and passed. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half statist and half free; I do not expect the house to fall; but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.

[Thorliveshere]

It’s a catch-22, if you don’t, then it looks like no one wants to secede, and we’re okay with Obama’s reign.

[Stainless Steel Rat]

“their part of the state had broken off and become West Virginia”

Doesn’t that pretty much lay all these questions to rest?

[Nowhere Man]

The old adage “War doesn’t determine right or wrong, only who survived” applies here.

The American Civil War only proved that a more populous, wealthier, more industrialized nation can defeat a smaller populated, more agrarian nation so long as it doesn’t lose it’s will to fight.

I don’t want to find out, but how many divisions would it take to hold Georgia, if Georgia really wanted out?

Well, I'm a believer of the old adage from Robert A. Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" where the point was made that "naked force has resolved more issued in history than any other factor." I consider myself a Confederate apologist but you're right. The Confederates did give it a great try, had they won at Gettysburg, I'd say they would have had a chance, especially if the UK entered on their side and/or tried to broker a deal between the North and South. Getting recognition from some countries too puts feathers in the cap too. IIRC during the American Revolution, after we proved ourselves, we did get Spain, France, Prussia and Poland to recognize and help us although they had their own motivations for doing so.

[Nowhere Man]

I thought “Hotel California” was bad. B-D

[newroark]

The creation of West Virginia is interesting and illustrates an important principle in federal law relating to the Civil War, viz., the secessionist governments of the Confederacy were never recognized as having legal existence and the states which they purported to represent, legally, never left the Union. In the case of Virginia, after the Ordinance of Secession was approved state-wide, a rump government was formed consisting largely of the West Virginia counties and some other northern counties that had voted pro-Union. Francis Pierpoint became the Governor of Virginia and established the temporary state capitol in Alexandria, within Union lines. The Pierpoint government of Virginia (recognized by the Union as Virginia’s only legal government) consented to the creation of West Virginia — as required by Art. IV, Sec. 3, U.S. Constitution.

[Arlis]

Good example.....no, great example.....

[dalereed]

I question whether that holds true for Texas or California which were independent Republics before JOINING the US.

All other states were US territory before they became States.

[NeverForgetBataan]

I love the idea of an independent Texas and any other red
states that want to come along with us.

However, I see as a more realistic scenario
(other than secession) that a liquidity crisis in the
Federal Government will drive a rolling downward spiral into
SHTF chaos. That will -in turn- allow a justification for a
“national emergency” style takeover by the military.

And it won’t be the kind of “national emergency” that
Barry O invokes to use those sweeping powers that he loves.
It will be the kind that has him replaced by a military
junta as a result of a declaration of “no confidence” in
his administration.

[Morris70]

The union has 50 states now. And can shoot within a few feet of accuracy from several miles away.
What are foot soldiers going to defend themselves from naval warships, UAV’s, tanks, and aircraft they will never see or hear .