Posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:47 PM PST by LifeComesFirst
It's too late for "taking this country back," it's too far gone. There is too large a segment of the population that wants to live under a large welfare state with minimal civil liberties and free abortions for all. We had the Tea Party and it hasn't done a lick of good. That's because it was trying to work within our existing, utterly broken system.
Think about these points:
--the country has been on a very un-Constitutional path since at least the New Deal --rule of law continues to erode as Obama uses executive orders and openly selectively enforces the law, and will nullify private contracts at will in order to benefit his special interests (Chrysler) --we cannot fly around our own country without being groped by petty civil "servants" --for the first time, the federal government has the power to place any mandate on us that it wants to, as Justice John Roberts has ruled that the power to tax is all-encompassing, so conceivably they could "tax" whatever behavior they want to stamp out and this will pass muster --our court system will only get worse as Obama will put farther left justices in courts --big business is aligned with government to an extent never seen, as corporations try to win subsidies or favorable regulations rather than trying to please customers --our very energy sources are being controlled by the government, limiting drilling, pipelines, etc. --huge segments of the population think of welfare and illegitimacy as ways of life, there are whole neighborhoods where self-reliance and education is secondary to handouts --whole segments of the economy are artificially propped up by the government, creating the illusion that bad economics times will follow if the government cuts its budget --entitlement spending is on track to bankrupt the whole western world --we have a country where half the population looks at record welfare, record food stamps, endless unemployment and stagnation, and says "more please" --even with a supermajority in both houses and control of the White House, no political party has the power to enact large scale changes. Even ObamaCare, which was supposed to be universal healthcare, was instead watered down into some Frankenstein's monster of special-interest-pleasing mandates and regulations. --Even if Romney had won, it would be politically impossible for him to do what would be necessary: major spending cuts and a large contraction of the welfare state, and slash-and-burn shrinking of the federal government. At best, we would have marginally lower taxes but still have trillions in debt and spending.
There are two reasons why all of these problems are intractable in this country: 1) half the country has a rotten culture which values government as savior 2) these flawed policies are baked in to the system. No amount of Tea Party protests and electing the right people will change anything. We have tried that, tried our darnedest, and it didn't work.
Complaining about "oh we just need more conservative candidates" isn't the answer either. Half the country wouldn't vote for a "true conservative" and if a "true conservative" became president, he or she would be very limited in what they could do. Reagan couldn't even cut the National Endowment for the Arts, for crying out loud.
Half the country wants a European welfare state, half the country wants limited government and economic freedom. I say both sides deserve the government they want to live under.
I think it is a basic human right to live under a government that governs with the consent of the governed. I think this basic human right transcends whatever the law may say (Scalia says there is no Constitutional right to secede). The Civil War experience we had in this country has forever colored our concept of secession. We automatically think of it as a violent, tragic enterprise. But this is a narrow viewpoint. There was a Civil War because one side wanted to secede and the other side wanted to remain intact.
But in a situation where both (or more) sides are willing to secede, you can have a peaceful split. Czechoslovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia, for example.
The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries, but there is no a priori reason to assume that this is always inevitable or always desirable.
2014 won't save us. 2016 won't save us. Getting a new person in the White House isn't the answer, that only buys time, it doesn't fix the problem.
It's time for people, not just right-wingers but it should start with them, to start floating the idea of a peaceful break-up of the United States of America. Getting bogged down into how it will work or whatever isn't the first step, the first step is to overcome the taboo of talking about it. Right now, even among many right-wingers, it is tinfoil hat talk to mention the s-word. That needs to change. This would be a much happier continent in a post-secession America.
The reason a peaceful breakup won’t work is that most of the money will want to move to the Conservative part. The ‘progressives’ are not going to allow that. They might not want the bitter clingers, but they do want the money of the bitter clingers.
You make a lot of really good points, especially the last: “Our America is already dead. It’s time to face that and salvage what we can.” I saw some Fox analysts talking about how Obama would be constrained by a more Republican congress. Somehow I doubt that John Boehner has them quaking in their boots. Yet these analysts are looking at it from a now defunct frame of reference. We cannot pretend that nothing has really changed. This election was a turning point. It legitimizes Obama’s reign of contempt, revenge and divisiveness. They abhor anyone who believes in the ideals of this country, and now they know that they can get away with anything. 15+% unemployment in black America, and they go 93-7. No jobs for young people, yet they celebrate their dear leaders victory. The only silver lining that I can see is that it now becomes impossible to pretend that this America is the same as the one that used to be. If that means some kind of secession, so be it. At least we know where we stand. The takers now outnumber the makers. The brainwashing of our education system has firmly taken hold. Our enemies have declared their desire for revenge. And none of our checks and balances (including the ballot box) are enough. I agree that secession is a LONG shot. But the situation is untenable. This country is clearly divided against itself, with two camps that loathe each other. I don’t know where this leads. But thanks to the most divisive president in our history, at least the situation has gotten much clearer.
Absolutely and completely right. Might be the best post I've ever read on here. And you are right that the only bright spot in all this is that anyone who can be awakened had better be awake now. No more believing that somehow this can all be fixed. It can't.
Texas and Alaska are no-brainers. Southern states will be a mixed bag because the high number of welfare recipients won’t want to live in a new country that has no handouts. Florida may split. The Ohio River may be the Northern border.
I could see all states ‘tween ND/Montana/Idaho and Texas splitting off.
The blue states will welcome welfare pilgrims with open arms.
There is no reason to think peaceful secession is impossible or unlikely.
That makes a lot of sense. It’s time
YES!
“Texas and Alaska are no-brainers.”
Alaska, maybe. Texas seems destined to become a blue state. Too many foreigners with foreign ideas have infested our state. Too many Latinos think like Mexicans instead of Americans, and the Republican Party can never do anything to appeal them and remain Republican.
At a certain point, Lot had to choose to follow God do leave Sodom to it’s fate.
I think a major problem with conservatism today is that we continue to try to plead and cajole and persuade and drag Sodom along with us. And Sodom does not want to be dragged along. At a certain point, our responsibility is not to “save” Sodom, but to take care of our own.
I don’t know whether secession is the answer but I think the idea is on the table where it really wasn’t a week ago. The country is bankrupt. We have two opposing political factions in the country. The takers and the makers. And their underlying ideologies are not compatible.
“It will just give the dictator a cause to trumpet as he goes to war.”
Maybe. Maybe not. I think the other side may be coming to the conclusion that they would like to be rid of us about as much as we would like to be rid of them.
“Secession is not enough. We need to take the whole country back, not just a few red states.”
It isn’t going to happen until the takers have no other choice. Like alcoholics, they need to hit rock bottom. Joining them in their descent to rock bottom is not a good idea. Our primary responsibility is to take care of our own, not drag along those who don’t want anything to do with it.
I don’t know if secession is “the” answer, but I think that continuing with the same basic strategy of trying to pesuade those who want nothing to do with what we are and what we believe in is an exercise in futility.
“Quite honestly, why would Obama even fight it? He hates us anyway.”
They might jump at it. They can do the electoral math: losing a few red states means they win what remains for the forseeable future.
Agree with your post. Texas now has more people on Medicaid than Arkansas, Iowa, or Mississippi have people. Do they plan on deporting them to blue states?
I think the first step has already been taken. FR usually leads the discussion by a few days. Give it 3-7 days and the conservative media will pick it up.
I don’t know if secession is the answer, but I do think it deserves an airing. It’s clear to me that the division of underlying philosophy between makers and takers is so pronounced that it might be the best case scenario.
“I think Free Republic should now be an outpost of the freedom FOR a new republic.”
The owner doesn’t appear to keen on the idea, but is tolerant of those who discuss it. I’m not convinced, but I think it’s an idea that deserves discussion.
Take a look at an electoral map. A large part of the US and the majority of the land area did not go along with the takers.
“Not all of us in CA are lecchers and are not liberals..we are outnumbered, Many of us would leave but are stuck in this hell hole.”
Some of the thoughts of those who didn’t leave Sodom and Gomorrah in time:
“Gosh, I think I should follow that Lot fella, but I’ve got family here...”
“Gomorrah really sucks, but my house has got a great view. Wow. What’s that pillar of fire?”
“The people in Sodom are really perverted creeps, but at least I’ve got a job.”
There is more chance of my winning the lotto than the gop nominating an actual conservative. They are the modern day Whigs and the sooner they are consigned to the rubbish heap of history, the better.
“Get to work changing hearts and minds, one person at a time. We failed. Learn from it and move on.”
We have learned from it. In the final analysis, Sodom and Gomorrah are not interested in what we’re selling. And it’s an exercise in futility to try to drag them along. They. Aren’t. Interested.
Those Ghetto’s are packed with Obama voters.
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