Posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:47 PM PST by LifeComesFirst
It's too late for "taking this country back," it's too far gone. There is too large a segment of the population that wants to live under a large welfare state with minimal civil liberties and free abortions for all. We had the Tea Party and it hasn't done a lick of good. That's because it was trying to work within our existing, utterly broken system.
Think about these points:
--the country has been on a very un-Constitutional path since at least the New Deal --rule of law continues to erode as Obama uses executive orders and openly selectively enforces the law, and will nullify private contracts at will in order to benefit his special interests (Chrysler) --we cannot fly around our own country without being groped by petty civil "servants" --for the first time, the federal government has the power to place any mandate on us that it wants to, as Justice John Roberts has ruled that the power to tax is all-encompassing, so conceivably they could "tax" whatever behavior they want to stamp out and this will pass muster --our court system will only get worse as Obama will put farther left justices in courts --big business is aligned with government to an extent never seen, as corporations try to win subsidies or favorable regulations rather than trying to please customers --our very energy sources are being controlled by the government, limiting drilling, pipelines, etc. --huge segments of the population think of welfare and illegitimacy as ways of life, there are whole neighborhoods where self-reliance and education is secondary to handouts --whole segments of the economy are artificially propped up by the government, creating the illusion that bad economics times will follow if the government cuts its budget --entitlement spending is on track to bankrupt the whole western world --we have a country where half the population looks at record welfare, record food stamps, endless unemployment and stagnation, and says "more please" --even with a supermajority in both houses and control of the White House, no political party has the power to enact large scale changes. Even ObamaCare, which was supposed to be universal healthcare, was instead watered down into some Frankenstein's monster of special-interest-pleasing mandates and regulations. --Even if Romney had won, it would be politically impossible for him to do what would be necessary: major spending cuts and a large contraction of the welfare state, and slash-and-burn shrinking of the federal government. At best, we would have marginally lower taxes but still have trillions in debt and spending.
There are two reasons why all of these problems are intractable in this country: 1) half the country has a rotten culture which values government as savior 2) these flawed policies are baked in to the system. No amount of Tea Party protests and electing the right people will change anything. We have tried that, tried our darnedest, and it didn't work.
Complaining about "oh we just need more conservative candidates" isn't the answer either. Half the country wouldn't vote for a "true conservative" and if a "true conservative" became president, he or she would be very limited in what they could do. Reagan couldn't even cut the National Endowment for the Arts, for crying out loud.
Half the country wants a European welfare state, half the country wants limited government and economic freedom. I say both sides deserve the government they want to live under.
I think it is a basic human right to live under a government that governs with the consent of the governed. I think this basic human right transcends whatever the law may say (Scalia says there is no Constitutional right to secede). The Civil War experience we had in this country has forever colored our concept of secession. We automatically think of it as a violent, tragic enterprise. But this is a narrow viewpoint. There was a Civil War because one side wanted to secede and the other side wanted to remain intact.
But in a situation where both (or more) sides are willing to secede, you can have a peaceful split. Czechoslovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia, for example.
The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries, but there is no a priori reason to assume that this is always inevitable or always desirable.
2014 won't save us. 2016 won't save us. Getting a new person in the White House isn't the answer, that only buys time, it doesn't fix the problem.
It's time for people, not just right-wingers but it should start with them, to start floating the idea of a peaceful break-up of the United States of America. Getting bogged down into how it will work or whatever isn't the first step, the first step is to overcome the taboo of talking about it. Right now, even among many right-wingers, it is tinfoil hat talk to mention the s-word. That needs to change. This would be a much happier continent in a post-secession America.
And those of us who tried to warn those only interested in American Idol and The View are going to drag the rest of us who don’t deserve this right along for the “bump in the road” ride..God what fools America looks to be now and Europe is all a twitter with glee as we look more and more like those failed governments.
I take a different view on the flag...I refuse to fly my beloved flag, the one I served under for 30 years..so as of 9;45 when the networks all called this for the Marxist, I furled my flag. I refuse to fly it under these conditions unless I fly it up side down....but until we are a free nation of liberty, it stays safely furled. I’ll get a new Marine Corps Flag to fly..the EGA..Eagle Globe and Anchor instead...
We can do it peacefully this time or have a desperate struggle to the bitter end. Either way I good.
We can do it peacefully this time or have a desperate struggle to the bitter end. I’m good either way.
That is why it is stupid to frame this as a military confrontation. There are benefits to both sides.
Trying to hold together these two unequal parts will ultimately cause more violence.
The biggest downside is that the U.S.A. has held Russia and China in check for seventy years. If that is taken out of the picture it will suck to be their neighbors. And that will have consequences for us as well. But that is coming sooner or later as well. It is already starting with the automatic budget cuts in January.
Oh I forgot to add, should a teleprompter fall on the Marxist and kill him or should he get eaten by a shark on a Hawaiian vacation..some thing like that but certainly not murder because I would loathe to see those kind of JFK honors granted this grifter, then my flag will fly at full staff!
“If Texas secedes I’ll move there in a heart beat.”
Ditto.
If secession becomes a reality, then it would be worth the pain of an Obama re-election in my opinion. We were already past the tipping point before this election, really. But I have learned in the past that good things can come out of bad and most clouds do have a silver lining of some sort.
Secession is, of course, a stretch, but we don’t know how bad things may get in the future. Spain’s had trouble with Basque separatists for a long time now; but who would have thought just a few years ago that large and wealthy Catalonia may be on the verge of secession too? Or that Flemish nationalists are chomping at the bit to break up Belgium? Or that the Scots are seriously discussing leaving the U.K.? Secession is still an unlikely scenario at this point for the U.S. but we don’t know what the future may bring and different parts of the country are undeniably divergent in beliefs, values, work ethic, demographics, traditions, and actions. Why should such differing peoples be forced together against their will?
Remember the “Jesusland” maps of 2004? The Lefties don’t like us any more than we like them. Now that they have the upper hand, though, I’m not so sure they’ll agree to an amicable separation. Only time will tell, but things will never again be the imaginary rosy picture Obama tried to paint in his victory speech (but which he never actually tried to create). Our America is already dead. It’s time to face that and salvage what we can.
Go Galt.
It will be very difficult for the Republican Party to nominate a Conservative for President. They had a very strong field of conservatives in the primary race and they all got taken down one at a time. And the Republican Party has open primaries in some states. That allows the leftists to help choose the Republican candidate. And just look at the RINO apologist here. After two back to back loses they still claim that a RINO is the only hope.
Not gonna happen.
No problem. Should be happening within 1-2 years. And they will probably be fighting even more wars then they are fighting right now. So we will offer them a new country to join, that is not at war with anyone, at the time. Pay and peace.
You make a lot of really good points, especially the last: “Our America is already dead. It’s time to face that and salvage what we can.” I saw some Fox analysts talking about how Obama would be constrained by a more Republican congress. Somehow I doubt that John Boehner has them quaking in their boots. Yet these analysts are looking at it from a now defunct frame of reference. We cannot pretend that nothing has really changed. This election was a turning point. It legitimizes Obama’s reign of contempt, revenge and divisiveness. They abhor anyone who believes in the ideals of this country, and now they know that they can get away with anything. 15+% unemployment in black America, and they go 93-7. No jobs for young people, yet they celebrate their dear leaders victory.
The only silver lining that I can see is that it now becomes impossible to pretend that this America is the same as the one that used to be. If that means some kind of secession, so be it. At least we know where we stand. The takers now outnumber the makers. The brainwashing of our education system has firmly taken hold. Our enemies have declared their desire for revenge. And none of our checks and balances (including the ballot box) are enough.
I agree that secession is a LONG shot. But the situation is untenable. This country is clearly divided against itself, with two camps that loathe each other. I don’t know where this leads. But thanks to the most divisive president in our history, at least the situation has gotten much clearer.
That is a very good point. The left is on the road to Chavez and there is nothing left to stop them.
Do not think secession is a long shot. More like it is inevitable now. There is no way to pay off this debt. Absolutely no way. So the country will collapse. No other possible path. We had a chance with austerity if the rest of the world played along, but that is now dead. No austerity possible and deficits will climb up way over a trillion in Obama's next 4 years.
You are right about the economy. It will collapse. I hope it does so quickly. If we successfully kick the can, and find ourselves in a very slow motion train wreck, then it will be like a frog in warming water. There won’t be any kind of spark that says “this country is in imminent danger”. And that path leads to the most dangerous kind of demagogue.
If it happens quickly, before demographics go too far against us, then maybe (just maybe), conservatives can convince enough people what should be obvious to everyone — that we are being ruled by economic incompetents.
Maybe you are right that secession is not that long a shot. As I said earlier, this is an untenable situation, with two halves of a country loathing each other. We will see. But I think that the key, looking forward, lies in *how* the economy collapses.
Based on electoral outcomes, which states do you think would secede?
While I agree with you, the “takers” in this nation are not going to let their cash cow, “the rest of us” go without a fight - how else will they finance their freebies? While they may well relish the thought of being rid of the rest of us, how long do you think that will take them figure out? They want to make us slaves to their system.
Everyone got that out of your system? Good. Back to realville.
There is not going to be a secession, there is not going to be a revolution, there is not going to be CWII, there is not going to be prison trains and internment camps.
Get to work changing hearts and minds, one person at a time.
We failed. Learn from it and move on.
That is a non-sequitur. Some want to subjugate the evil racist whites, but they aren't in the majority.
Above all else they worship power. Getting rid of a diehard red state removes an obstacle in their path.
I don't believe their thought processes are that evolved. They see conservatives as poor knuckledraggers living in trailer houses and driving old pickup trucks. All the wealth is in California and New York as far as they are concerned.
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