Posted on 01/18/2012 4:03:31 PM PST by Morgana
anuary 18, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Cathy Ruse’s article yesterday urging pro-life and pro-family advocates not to buy Girl Scouts of America (GSA) cookies, both because of the organization’s ties to Planned Parenthood and an overall “progressive” agenda, has ignited quite the debate. Not only is the article LifeSiteNews’ most read article of the week, it has also drawn an enormous amount of commentary, both supportive and critical.
Lots of readers agree that GSA’s ties to Planned Parenthood disqualify its cookie initiative from receiving support, while others argue it’s unfair to tar the whole organization with the actions of some GSA bureaucrats and councils, pointing out that the pro-abortion activism doesn’t necessarily (and often doesn’t) filter down to many of the individual troops, which still do a lot of good. One impassioned reader wrote:
I am a Girl Scout leader and I can attest to the fact that I have never heard of any comments about pro-choice or abortion rights from my council or anyone else in the organization and this is certainly not talked about with the girls. We are an all volunteer organization and there are some people that have made mistakes with certain topics, but we are not all that way and certainly do not all support abortion.
The first thing worth noting is that Cathy didn’t say Girl Scouts should get no support at all, but confined her remarks to the cookie sale, pointing out that most of the funds don’t even go to the local troop (troops receive as little as 10% of the profit). Instead, they fund Girl Scout councils or the head office, where the problems originate.
Hence the question that immediately occurred to me after reading Cathy’s article was, would it be all right to directly support your local girl scout troop, in lieu of buying cookies?
But the whole thing might remind some of the “fungibility” problem we see in the Planned Parenthood tax-funding debate: even though they are technically forbidden from using our money for the objectionable stuff (i.e. abortions), any support at all means we’re freeing up money for the organization to do those things we disagree with. Some might say this is what funding any part of GSA amounts to as well.
However, I’m not sure I buy that, since Girl Scouts isn’t a business the way Planned Parenthood is: it’s an organization with largely autonomous troops, with the character of the individual troops largely determined by volunteer troop leaders and the girls in the troop. The direct financial relationship between the cookies initiative and the GSA hierarchy is obvious: but I see no such relationship when giving money to a local troop. Will such money end up at the head office, and ultimately at Planned Parenthood? It seems unlikely.
In fact, to me there might be a valid argument that getting involved with and supporting your local Girl Scout troop is a good way to protect it from some of the nonsense coming from head office. Of course, if you know that the leadership of your local troop is already taking its cues on social issues from head office, then it might be better not to support that troop, and to support an alternative, unless it looks like there is some hope for change in the troop.
My fear is that in this case the “spotlight fallacy” may be at work: that is, we may be judging the whole organization based upon a few high-profile instances of pro-abortion activism by a small, if powerful, segment of the organization. But just because the GSA leadership is promoting abortion rights at the UN doesn’t mean that your local troop has in any way contributed to that initiative.
Hence, the question seems to come down to just how systemic the rot in GSA is. Is it so widespread that the whole organization is compromised, or is it contained enough that we can work in good conscience with the good sections, ensuring that no anti-life rot enters into them, and perhaps pushing the rot further back?
A 2004 survey conducted by STOPP International gives us some information on this question. That survey found that around 25% of councils who responded to the survey said they were partnering with Planned Parenthood in some way. That’s a considerable number. However, only 65 out of 249 councils responded to the survey, leaving the vast majority of them unaccounted for. And keep in mind that these are councils rather than individual troops, which are even more numerous.
Personally, I would like to see more information before I make up my mind about GSA. I absolutely condemn the anti-life actions that have been performed in GSA’s name by its members, and I condemn any partnership of any kind with Planned Parenthood, but I must ask, is there still some way that we can in good conscience support GSA, or is it beyond hope?
What do you think?
Some links with more info about Girl Scouts’ anti-life activism:
100 Questions for Girl Scouts
As noted in the Girl Scouts and Pro-Abortion WAGGGS section, GSUSA also supports abortion rights through their membership in, substantial funding of, and close relationship with the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS), which aggressively promotes accessible, affordable and safe abortions.
Girl Scouts partner with Planned Parenthood:
On March 5th [2004] Kathy Cloninger, CEO of the Girl Scouts of America, appeared on NBC’s “Today” show to discuss the boycott. … Cloninger explained that Girl Scouts of America addresses the challenges girls face in today’s world, including issues regarding sexuality and body image. She then added, “We partner with many organizations. We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs, and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls.”
I suggests you take on a Girl Scout troop and try to give a groups of 6-10 year olds an alternate way for everyone to earn money for camp. Especially when some come from struggling families in very poor neighborhoods.
Given the lack of parental support and limited opportunities for elementary and middle school girls to go safely and independently out into the community to earn money, the organized cookie selling program is a great equalizer of opportunity for all the girls to participate.
The cookie season only runs about 6 weeks a year, which is good. Girl Scouts may ONLY raise money for their troops or Council, which is also good.
The cookie badges guide the girls into age-appropriate skills to run their own small group business. The activities help them develop a business plan and budgeting goals, to work as a team, and to meet adults as customers under the safe protection of trained adults in charge.
Cookie selling IS their own small business and has been for almost 75 years.
And they become a lot more good self reliant citizens than the dance schools here that push kids to earn thousands of dollars for costumes and the sports teams where the parents run concession stands to raise thousands of dollars for their kid’s uniforms and traveling leagues.
Given my experience with pushing overpriced popcorn for my Boy Scout, give me $4 a box cookies to sell ANY day.
And for every principled poster here who has a suggested comment to make to a child selling cookies, I have heard equal comments from liberals and homosexuals to the little Boy Scouts selling popcorn.
and you should do more reading. In our GS Council the money not sent to the selling troops goes to support our camps and programs run by combination of paid staff and volunteers. It costs about $180 a year per girl on average to maintain the camp propeties and run programs (including those to train leaders)
The girls pay $12 a year dues to National GSUSA.
So go figure “what they do with the money at HQ”
As for National GSUSA and their “cut”, the baker cost includes the fee they pay to GSUSA for licensing the product and use of the logo and brand. Cookies is not the biggest source of revenue to GSUSA national HQ
http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_cookies/cookie_faqs.asp#money_where
Cookie Revenue
Q: When I buy Girl Scout Cookies, where does the money go?
A: With every purchase, approximately 70% of the proceeds stays in the local Girl Scout council to provide a portion of the resources needed to support Girl Scouting in that area, including the portion that goes directly to the group selling the cookies. The balance goes directly to the baker to pay for the cookies.
Q: How does the cookie revenue benefit girls?
A: All of the revenue earned from cookie activities —every penny after paying the baker—stays with the local Girl Scout council that sponsors the sale. This includes the portion that goes directly to the group selling cookies. Councils use their cookie revenue to supply essential services to troops, groups, and individual girls, such as providing program resources and communication support, training adult volunteers, and conducting special events. The Girl Scout council’s volunteer board of directors:
•Chooses the baker
•Determines the price per box
•Decides how this revenue will be used to provide vital services—such as adult recruitment and training and operation of camps and service centers—and other indirect expenses
•Decides how much money will be returned to groups selling cookies for their projects and activities
Q: What portion of the cookie revenue is shared with the group selling cookies?
A: This decision is made by each local Girl Scout council, so the portion varies from one council to another. Nationwide, girls receive an estimated 10 – 20% of the purchase price of each box of cookies sold. Cookie proceeds are held in a group or council account and allocated for activities based on the way a girl has joined Girl Scouts, e.g. as a member of a troop, as a special interest group, as a camper, or in a travel group. In many councils girls earn “cookie credit” after a certain number of boxes are sold, which may be used towards council programs, travel or Girl Scout related purchases in the council shop.
Was just answering some other posters. They mentioned where the money goes. Thanks for your answer.
The money is going to GSHQ to advance Leftism.
I’ve done it with Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts (for more than 10 years), so I know what I’m talking about. We sold locally-made pies and increased our take by 50%. The cookies are just as over-priced, and the kids get hosed on the commission the same whether its cookies or popcorn. It all goes to support the ever-increasing overhead at national HQ.
We also took (with our own sons) their “Personal Management” merit badge work and showed them how to run their chores and odd-jobs like a business.
What’s your Scouting leadership involvement?
WE may NOT participate in any extra money earnng unless we participate in the cookie sale.
The vast number of our membership is under 10 years old, so that limits what is an appropriate and safe way for that age group to earn money. And they do earn it as a group, budget as a group, and spend it as a group, unlike BS which keep individual boy/family accounts. The girls LOVE selling cookies, especially when young and especially at cookie booths. They are very proud of their uniforms, the signs they make, and get nice comments from people
Because we are not chartered by churches etc meeting space is always a headache, we tend to meet at schools and after school. Good for the girls but limits parent involvement in the meetings. When my son was a Cub I had to go to every meeting. GS parents tend to leave leading the girls in money earning up to the leaders, Cookies are a fun product. They are part of our history for 75 years.
Now, my Scouting involvement-
Been a Cub and BS parent, spouse is the BS type with his Wood Badge and handles the BS activities with son
I stick with GS, been a member for 50 years, GS leader for 6 years, volunteer as trainer with 2 different Councils, this year am Service Unit manager with 25+ troops of 400 girls and approximately 250 adults
Last year also worked with a special GS travel group (multiple troops) to raise $15000 in 9 months to take the group to Savannah. Many MANY girls do not have the family support structure to start an indendent small business when they are 11 or younger, nor to get paid by their parents to do chores. The travel groups and own troop of older girls supplement cookie money mostly by eventing- sponsoring badge earning events and fun activities like camp-ins for younger girls, who love it.
I could never send my daughter (or son) out into our urban neighborhood to seek work. It is not safe. Nor could I send anyone elses kid out. We actually do very little door-to-door cookie selling or any kind of public solicitation because of this, we tried this year but with the economy it was not good.
I maintain that I feel more comfortable asking for $4 for a box of cookies than $20-$25 for a box or tin of popcorn. Have done it all.
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