Iphone 4 got tossed this weekend

[varmintman]

Prior to 02 I'd gone for some time hoping I could die of old age without ever touching a cellphone but that clearly wasn't going to happen; I was getting into too much trouble from not being able to find pay phones which basically stopped existing around that time. I mean, superman never had to look more than 30 feet for a phone booth to change in, but he'd go crazy now.

And then, a bit less than a year ago, the company I work for insisted on me buying an Iphone and the main idea was having access to email on the road. I mean, I'd never wanted anything to do with Apple after the stunt they pulled shutting down the Atari 520ST in 85, but I ignored any misgivings I may have had and bought the thing....

The biggest problem has been the thing getting a mote of dust or lint or something in that little hole for headphones and believing it was working with headphones when it wasn't. That keeps the user from hearing the other guy unless he figures out what's going on and puts the phone on speaker. The problem can usualy be fixed by blowing PC cleaning air into the headphone hole but it can take an hour or more of doing that.

That is still preferable to taking the thing to the local Apple store for service. Their normal mode is to have you make an appointment to be seen in two or three or four days and that basically means going several days off the air.

Then there's the thing about batteries. If a battery dies on any other cell phone you buy a new battery for $20 or $30 and replace the dead one. The Iphone needs to be replaced if a battery dies and, that's right, you need to make an appointment for that and that can mean several days off the air.

I mean, who the hell would buy a car which had to be replaced whenever a battery died.....

But the kicker came yesterday morning when the thing (actually the second one after the first being replaced for a battery), not only pulled its ugly little thing of acting like it thought it was on imaginary headphones, but aside from me not hearing other people other than on speaker, nobody else could hear me.

The normal deal with ATT is to be eligible for phone upgrades every two years; in this case the situation wasn't going to go for another year or more and I simply paid the full price for a Samsung/Android phone and the best ATT could do was a trade-in program which gave me 200 for the Iphone so that the whole deal cost more like 400 than 600, but I view that as money well spent, the Samsung Galaxy appears to be a much nicer phone.

[Kickass Conservative]

Every one here is missing the point about “just saying”.

“Just saying” is a way to tell the reader that you have no specific opinion on the subject on hand, but you want to bring up an obvious point related to the topic being discussed.

OR, you agree with Laz’s explanation. OR, should that be Lazz's explanation? BTW, what was this thread about again? Just saying... LOL

[Keith in Iowa]

>>>Sometimes I’m in the backwoods far from towers and would like a tablet that can work with GPS without needing access to towers or wifi.

A wifi-only iPad CAN be a full blown GPS, with no need for continuous network connection... http://bad-elf.com/ — as long as your app keeps its needed maps on the device, it works just fine.

[Keith in Iowa]

>>>The iPad needs the 3G version to even have GPS...

GPS can be added to wifi-only iPads, as well as the iPod Touch... via bluetooth GPS puck, or the BadElf device that I linked to above.

[ReignOfError]

The one company which was in a position to challenge IBM by producing a real mass-market microcomputer with the 68000 chip was Apple; what they did was to produce two computers (Lisa and toaster Mac) which were so pathetic they convinced the whole world that the 68000 itself was a bad idea. Those computers were using the 68000 chip itself to generate graphics so that remnant compute power was less than a T80 running at two or three MH. They never were used for any meaningful work.

Unless you count completely revolutionizing the publishing business. The Mac, LaserWriter and Pagemaker replaced massive, tempermental typesetting equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars.

And then, in 1985, Atari came out with a personal computer which was what the PC should have been from day one. The 520 was a beautiful machine with an 8 MH 68000 chip, a half meg or meg of memory which was huge at the time, a real graphics card, good graphics, and the GEM GUI and applications.

Apple had a 512K mac in 1984, before the ST, and a few months after the ST came out with the Mac Plus, which came standard with 1M and was upgradeable to 4M. All of the first-generation Macs had an 8MHz 68000 (the Lisa ran at 5MHz). Those specs that you tout as groundbreaking were right in the middle of Apple's offerings; its main advantage was 4-bit color where the Mac was strictly monochrome until 1987. Whether GEM was a superior OS to the Mac is a question of taste; there is nothing about it that is clearly and overwhelmingly better.

Apple realized that it would be three or four years before they could have anything to compete with that. They threatened to tie all of Atari and DRI (GEM)'s products up in courts for years unless crippling changes were made to both the 520 and GEM and the upshot was Atari getting out of computers

Eight years later. Atari went on to release three more versions of GEM after the Apple/Digital lawsuit. Despite your best efforts to paint Apple as the mustache-twirling villain, the suits had little effect on Atari; what killed the ST line was getting its lunch eaten in the market by Amiga, Atari's ongoing management and cash flow problems, and the dubious decision to focus all its resources and bet the company on the Jaguar game console.

[Swordmaker]

I thought it was obvious enough I was using “shut down” as a figure of speech. Again what the journals were reporting was that Apple hauled representatives of Atari and DRI into their offices in Cupertino and demanded a longish list of crippling changes to both the 520 and GEM or they (Apple) would simply tie the ST up in courts for ten years and nobody would ever make a dime with it and, again as it was being reported at the time, Atari caved.

That did NOT happen either. These claims are FUD... You used SHUT DOWN as you meant it to be... and the Atari sold millions. YOU stated they got out of the computer business when nothing could be farther from the truth. Quit dancing, trying to change what you said. There were no "crippling" changes to either GEM or the Atari ST 520. If there had been, Apple would have done FAR more to the Commodore Amiga... they did not.

Apple DID require that Digital Research make minor User Interface changes to GEM... to make it look less like the Apple Macintosh user interface. It's original interface was almost identical to the Apple Macintosh interface and violated their copyrights... and Apple had several rulings in their favor on this. This was in accordance with copyright laws. Apple had to make these demands to keep its copyrights.

Original GEM screen

Original Mac screen

Revised GEM screen AFTER the changes required
by Apple to not infringe their copyrights

Apple and DR met amicably to settle the differences across a conference table, not a courtroom, DR made cosmetic changes which Apple approved—It had NO effect on Atari—and the changes to GEM were completed by October of 1985, GEM was made available on multiple platforms, and Atari went on to sell millions of Atari 520s and 1040s, so your complaint is specious.

You will note the changes are not too substantial...

[Swordmaker]

IIRC, in addition to using WiFi for a more accurate fix, the iOS devices use it to generate a preliminary position estimate while it’s waiting for GPS, which can be relatively slow in comparison (up to 15-20 seconds or so).

That is essentially correct, but the iOS device already has a general idea of where it is from continually getting WIFI data. So the GPS is very fast when it does get the GPSatellite data.

[Swordmaker]

The thing I'm pissed about at this point is Apple costing me something like $400 by marketing a product which couldn't make it to the two year ATT trade-up point, in fact it didn't even make it to the end of one year.

More FUD... my ex is still using my original iPhone from 2007... and the battery is still holding an 80% charge. In addition, AT&T will allow you to upgrade at 18 months... AND buy back your iPhone 4 for more than the cost of the contract price of the 4S. So again, your argument is specious.

[Swordmaker]

This was the fourth or fifth time the thing had done this and Apple's normal mode of operation is to have the customer make an appointment to be seen two or three days hence and I simply cannot afford to be off the air for two or three days at a stretch on that regular a basis. Previously I'd been able to fix the headphone-hole thing with compressed air and/or by using speaker phone until the problem went away, this time that did not work. The one experience I'd had taking the phone back to Apple was for a dead battery.

MORE FUD... Every time I've called, I have had an appointment either that day, or the next... at the next available time... and had the problem solved. Most times Apple will give you a new phone. I've never had a problem with a phone. I did take a laptop in, out of warranty by over two years. They could not fix it in a reasonable time so they GAVE me a brand new laptop!

[varmintman]

All I can tell you about is my own experiences, I don’t live other people’s lives for them. I’d much prefer the iphone had made it to the two year point at least, I’ve got much better things to be doing with $400.

[Sundog]

Just the 64GB original Ipad, to have space for all the topo maps of utah, and some of the surrounding states. We’ve used it in Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, in Idaho, New Mexico, and Arizona. My favorite program is simply called “Topo Maps”, and the icon is a blue pin in a map. The Ipad has the 3G features but I’ve never bought a contract. The GPS works great without the data service.

[ReignOfError]

All I can tell you about is my own experiences,

Do your own experiences include going to the Genius Bar, or did you rule it out based on something you'd heard? Because your description of Apple's "normal mode" is anything but.

I checked about a dozen Apple stores online, and they all had at least thirty appointments available for tomorrow. All but one had morning appointments. Most if not all stores also do stand-by appointments, and if there are any that don't as a matter of policy, they probably will if you ask nicely -- the wait is unpredictable, depending on when someone cancels or no-shows, but it's same-day.

You said the phone was less than a year old, which means it was still covered by warranty, unless it was damaged by water or some other misadventure. Even in cases of water damage, the replacement is $199 at most. The extra $400 you spent was as the result of your own actions, not anything Apple did (or didn't do).

[Swordmaker]

All I can tell you about is my own experiences, I don’t live other people’s lives for them. I’d much prefer the iphone had made it to the two year point at least, I’ve got much better things to be doing with $400.

So far, all of your experiences are totally off the wall and counter to all of ours. Your recall of history is also completely different from the history of reality. Atari did NOT stop the sale of the Atari 520ST... and in fact was never threatened by Apple with shut down. Apple merely required Digital Research to change the look and feel of GEM... to avoid copying the copyrighted Mac, which it did in it's first incarnation. You can SEE the obvious copy infringements in the post above. The changes were minor... not the MAJOR crippling you claim was required. You post inaccuracies and myths and complain when we call you on them.

[varmintman]

The case of the 520ST as I’ve stated it is from memory based on journal articles from the time, what I see on the internet on the topic now is a mixed bag of opinions. The experience I’d had with the iphone and the “genius bar(TM)” is real enough. The apple store at Tysons Corner I gave me an appointment two days hence to replace a cellphone in a situation in which any for other electronic device on Earth it would have sufficed to replace a battery for $20.

[Drago]

I had quite the opposite experience...the DW needed an iPhone for work (her employer wasn’t supporting Android at the time for calendar/e-mail/contacts sync), so I decided to upgrade from my TracFone to the state of the art Android phone of the time (August 2010) the Samsung Galaxy S. Long story short, the iPhone 4 is winning by a mile...no problems with the iPhone 4...battery at about 90% of original capacity, no probs with apps, etc. The Galaxy S was OK for a few months, but lost all speaker audio (I had to open it up and re-seat the speaker connections), OS updates (1 and done, Android 2.1 to 2.2) took months after the promised date, no further updates released...v 2.3 would be nice!), battery is starting to go (at least it is easily replaceable, haven’t priced a new one yet), and lately it is lagging/hesitating almost all the time (background processes from buggy apps I think). So now I have to look for an app to kill the misbehaving processes!! No such trouble with the Apple “pre-screened” apps. Overall, the iPhone “just works”, and I will probably go that direction next summer.

[Swordmaker]

The case of the 520ST as I’ve stated it is from memory based on journal articles from the time, what I see on the internet on the topic now is a mixed bag of opinions. The experience I’d had with the iphone and the “genius bar(TM)” is real enough. The apple store at Tysons Corner I gave me an appointment two days hence to replace a cellphone in a situation in which any for other electronic device on Earth it would have sufficed to replace a battery for $20.

Look, You can replace the battery in the iPhone... you got a replacement iPhone with a new battery.Had you asked for an expedited appointment, you probably would have gotten one. You COULD have had an appointment the next day... or overnight replacement. You complain because your phone has a battery that outlasts other smart phones in operation times AND stays small, without becoming bulky because of the extra hardware needed for consumer replaceable batteries. Give it a rest. NOW it's two days hence where earlier in this column it was three to four days... you Exaggerate your problems.

[Swordmaker]

The case of the 520ST as I’ve stated it is from memory based on journal articles from the time, what I see on the internet on the topic now is a mixed bag of opinions. The experience I’d had with the iphone and the “genius bar(TM)” is real enough. The apple store at Tysons Corner I gave me an appointment two days hence to replace a cellphone in a situation in which any for other electronic device on Earth it would have sufficed to replace a battery for $20.

Your memory is of something THAT DID NOT HAPPEN... the journal articles are available on the internet, if you know how to search for them... and the all refer to Apple working WITH Digital Research to handle the infringement issues. Atari was never SHUT DOWN... in fact Tramiel of Commodore fame bought Atari for a song because it was losing money from a conglomerate and he thought that Atari had the Amiga... but they had defaulted on the second payment for the Amiga and his prior company Commodore had snatched up Hi Toro. So he quickly raided Commodore for some engineering talent, filed the serial numbers off CPM, renamed it Tramiel OS, bought some GEM licenses for a shell, and released the Atari 520 ST with little problem, BEATING the Commodore Amiga to retail market by a week. Apple did not have a problem with either companies' offering... They objectected Digital Research's GEM copying of MacOS copyrights and patents. This was done by November of 1985... and everyone was happy.

[TXnMA]

"And most of them voted for Obama."

"Just sayin’..."

~~~~~~~~

Wake up your other brain cell and see if you can come up with reliable data to support that...

[ReignOfError]

The experience I’d had with the iphone and the “genius bar(TM)” is real enough. The apple store at Tysons Corner I gave me an appointment two days hence

What you experienced certainly isn't normal. The Tyson's Corner store has, as I write this, an appointment available an hour from now, and 40 other appointment times through the rest of the day. Ditto at the Clarendon store, Georgetown, and Montgomery Mall. Pentagon City is more jammed, with only 20 spots available.

[varmintman]

I do not live other people’s lives for them. All I can tell you about is what I have experienced personally.

[varmintman]

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN...

Again this is from memory from journal articles at the time, my memory is still good enough to earn a living with, maybe the journals were all lying, but you don't have to look terribly far for evidence of Apple being a company which tries to earn its living in courtrooms, there's an account of something like that in the news on FR today

Again from memory, the Apple/Atari thing included a claim of primacy on the idea of using a trash-can icon for deleting files which is like Ford claiming a patent on the use of steering wheels to control cars. In fact given the origin of the GUI at Zerox-PARC, what you're really talking about is chutzvah.

Again this thread is not about ancient history, it's about Apple marketing products which can't make it halfway to the 2-year trade-up point or, at the very least, one of which didn't.