Hope, skepticism for cold fusion

Boston Globe ^ | November 27 , 2011 | D.C. Denison

[HiTech RedNeck]

Little gummit programs have a way of getting great big, and are you DEAF fellow when I said I advocated putting the Tokamaks back into private auspices?

[Kevmo]

are you DEAF fellow when I said I advocated putting the Tokamaks back into private auspices?
***No, but in the meantime Tokomak hot-fusion boys take money from your pocket while the LENR boys don’t, and yet you’re all over these LENR threads squawking about how things oughtta be. Maybe I can’t hear you over all that SQUAWKING.

[Kevmo]

I don’t see any of these e-Cat fusions happening in a scientific milieu.
***That is because you are not paying attention. Rossi did not claim to invent cold fusion, he claims a way to ‘catalyze’ it, to make it more replicable. So all those prior replications, all 14k+ of them, are just more evidence to be considered in terms of LENR “fusions happening in a scientific milieu.”

[HiTech RedNeck]

And you’re the self designated FR hawker for Mr. Con Man’s e-Cats. If I waste one dollar (and the Tokamak should not be judged by its current claimed output, but as a scientific research tool that is open to all comers and anybody can build and gee, it works the same way for all of them without fail), why am I condemned for not wanting to waste two of them?

[Kevmo]

but if they fail, we have the tools in hand to understand why they fail. No ooga-booga!
***Then why haven’t they improved on their results, if they have the tools to understand why they failed? WTF does
‘no ooga-booga’ mean? BOHICA

[HiTech RedNeck]

The very reaction that Rossi alleges is being catalyzed shouldn’t even BE releasing energy. The e-Cats ought to be great refrigerators, not boilers!

[Kevmo]

And you’re the self designated FR hawker for Mr. Con Man’s e-Cats.
***Bowlsheet. I was posting LENR threads on FR before Rossi came along. The first few Rossi threads were promoted by others. I’m not a Rossi fan, I’m a LENR fan.

[HiTech RedNeck]

If Congress spends on a Rossi enterprise, BOHICA is very apt to describe what will come.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Kevmo sure puts out a disproportionate amount of Rossi. Because after all he appears to be getting the boil, bubble, toil and trouble out of his cauldrons, while others are busy chasing after millijoules under a microscope.

But the size of the thing at optimum means nothing if you can’t do it every single freaking time, and the epic failure of the recent 1 MW herd of e-Cats to get any hotter than the electricity pumped into them would suffice to do, says volumes to me.

[Kevmo]

If I waste one dollar ... why am I condemned for not wanting to waste two of them?
***Your own words condemn you.

(and the Tokamak should not be judged by its current claimed output,
***BowlSheet. You’re judging LENR by that standard, you should judge Tokomak by the same standard. Today I’m on a waiting list for $5k LENR device, but you couldn’t get 1000 buddies together and afford a tokomak.

but as a scientific research tool
***That outputs 6MJ per run MAX, while LENR experiments output 100MJ per run AVERAGE

that is open to all comers
***Izzat so? Show me your waiting list for doing experiments on your Tokomak. I’m on a LENR waiting list for 1/1000th the cost, within 1-2 years’ time frame.

and anybody can build
***hah hah... HAH HAH HAH BWAhhaaaHAHAHAAA HAH HAAH hahhah... oh, that was just utterly precious

and gee, it works the same way for all of them without fail),
***Then you shouldn’t have any trouble for it being judged by its current claimed output.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Solomon’s advice not to argue with a mocker kicks in to me at this point. Bye, have a nice night.

[Kevmo]

Kevmo sure puts out a disproportionate amount of Rossi. Because after all he appears to be getting the boil, bubble, toil and trouble out of his cauldrons, while others are busy chasing after millijoules under a microscope.
***Do you have any idea what you’re actually saying here? Probably not.

But the size of the thing at optimum means nothing if you can’t do it every single freaking time,
***Uh huh. Let’s see... cloning, replicable about 1/1000 times but no one denies the claim. Every single freaking time... raising the bar for LENR while lowering it for tokomak.

and the epic failure of the recent 1 MW herd of e-Cats to get any hotter than the electricity pumped into them would suffice to do, says volumes to me.
***But says nothing to the customer who signed on the dotted line and carted it away, later on ordering 12 more 1MW plants. Yeah, right. So you accept the 570kW claim on that day but you don’t accept that the customer carted it away. Raising the bar while lowering it where you see fit... I’m detecting a pattern.

[Kevmo]

Judicaret spectator se ipso: Let the lurker decide for himself

[TennesseeProfessor]

One concept: Occham’s Razor

I forgot which critic came up with this quote, but it sums up my opinion very well. "Rossi's latest test of his reactor was inconclusive. I do not think it is a coincidence that eleven tests in a row have all been inconclusive. "

[Kevmo]

If Congress spends on a Rossi enterprise, BOHICA is very apt to describe what will come.
***The reason we’re in this predicament in the first place is that congress chose to fund the hot fusion boys. If they had simply allocated funds according to MJoules of output, the hot fusion boys would be starving to death right now and the cold fusion boys wouldn’t have to resort to shenanigans.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Not to pick up from the HiTech RedNeck (hi!) but I really don’t want the government to be picking winners and losers in the market at all. Let’s not fund *any* energy companies with dollars extracted at gunpoint from innocent taxpayers and let the invisible hand of the market sort things out instead.

[Kevmo]

I do not think it is a coincidence that eleven tests in a row have all been inconclusive. ***Neither do I, especially since Rossi outright declined to have it tested. He said in the beginning that there would be no public demos, but his friend Focardi is in ill health and seeks recognition & asked him to do the demos. So, with the viable claim that he's unprotected by patent law, his position does not violate Occham's Razor. Rossi Declines Italian and U.S. Government Testing Offers 26 novembre 2011 By New Energy Times Andrea Rossi, inventor of the Energy Catalyzer, or E-Cat, has declined an offer from an Italian government laboratory for independent testing of his device. According to Francesco Celani, a physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Frascati, Rossi … Continue reading → Read more: http://www.ecatnews.net/page/3/#ixzz1f4boMPfF

[Kevmo]

The very reaction that Rossi alleges is being catalyzed shouldn’t even BE releasing energy.
***What reaction is that?

NASA confirms they are working on Widom Larsen theory ...
May 17, 2011 ... Lewis G. Larsen developed a theory of LENRs (WLT) that explains ALL the
evidence and along with Dr. Alan Widom published their theory in ...

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2011/.../nasa-confirms-widom-larsen-theory.html - Cached - Similar

[count-your-change]

At this point there are simply too many negatives, too many red flags not to be highly skeptical of Of Rossi’s claims and saying the cold fusion ha been shown to occur doesn't mean Rossi has achieved it.

Saying that what Rossi does couldn't be anything else is just another way of saying one doesn't know what really is being done. It means nothing.

That a number of people are willing to venture their money on something they don't understand is what keeps the slot machines going in Los Vegas. So Rossi’s claim about letting the customers speak...well Vegas hasn't gone broke yet.

Suppose his device does work somewhat. So does solar and wind power and they take no fuel at all.
Right now finding low grade heat is not a problem but paying for the equipment to capture it is.

At the moment the e-cats MIGHT be a source of low grade heat and an expensive one at that.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Hey bud! You might want to post a link that actually WORKS ya know. Even if it points to rubbish.

Ciao.